Rusty Staples...

[cook]

I've got a couple of programmes with rusty staples in them. Is it best to remove them or just leave them in? The paper around the staples is already discoloured.

[mark01]

Hi Cooky, yes its annoying isn't it.

Personnally I take mine out and disregard them - its a matter of opinion really, but I would rather prevent further damage as soon as the problem becomes apparent.

I recently was looking through my Bristol City homes 66/7, 67/8 and was horrified to see the state of the rusting on and around the staples. I ended up taking all the rusty stales out for the seasons stated. Strangely it was only for those two seasons - later seaon or two was 'protected' by the FLR!

regards, Mark

[Footyfan]

The late, Norman Lovett, founder of the now defunct British Programme Collectors Club based in Hull, in the 1960'70s, advocated removing staples to prevent rusting from occurring. He actually wrote an article for the Football League Review magazine in which he explained why it was wise to remove staples when storing programmes.

I must admit that i do find it odd that certain club programmes appear to be worse than others for rusting staples, for example early 1970s Norwich City homes are particularly bad and you will often see this mentioned when they appear on EBay, likewise, as already mentioned, Bristol City mid-1960s are also a good example.

Personally, I remove staples at the first sign of any rust appearing and feel that this does not detract from the programme in terms of value or being collectable.

[Footyfan]

The late, Norman Lovett, founder of the now defunct British Programme Collectors Club based in Hull, in the 1960'70s, advocated removing staples to prevent rusting from occurring. He actually wrote an article for the Football League Review magazine in which he explained why it was wise to remove staples when storing programmes.

I must admit that I do find it odd and annoying that certain club programmes appear to be worse than others for rusting staples, for example early 1970s Norwich City homes are particularly bad and you will often see this mentioned when they appear on EBay, likewise, as already mentioned, Bristol City mid-1960s are also a good example.

Personally, I remove staples at the first sign of any rust appearing and believe it does not detract from the programme in terms of value or being collectable.

[Kickoff3pm]

It's only common sense to remove rusting staples imo. You can always find replacement should you need them later or you could always put some cotton though the top staple hole and out though the bottom staple hole. But the don't tie the end use a small bit of paper like a folded over sticky label on each end.

I used to no someone that did that and they made the labels big enough to put the details of the programme on. So lined up on a shelf he could quickly read each label to find a programme. I fact you could put ither details like how much you paid etc.

[cook]

Thanks for the replies lads. I think I'll take some out tomorrow.

I was even thinking about putting 'fresh' staples in rather than leaving them without any.

The programmes in question are Alnwick Town ones, home and away, late 80's and early 90's. I don't know if it will help for the future but I've got them all individually stored in programme sleeves now.

[Kickoff3pm]

cook wrote:

Thanks for the replies lads. I think I'll take some out tomorrow. I was even thinking about putting 'fresh' staples in rather than leaving them without any. The programmes in question are Alnwick Town ones, home and away, late 80's and early 90's. I don't know if it will help for the future but I've got them all individually stored in programme sleeves now.

I suspect programme from that age will have non-rusting staples but not sure. Take one out and stick it outside in the rain for a few weeks and you soon see

[cook]

Kickoff3pm wrote:

It's only common sense to remove rusting staples imo. You can always find replacement should you need them later or you could always put some cotton though the top staple hole and out though the bottom staple hole. But the don't tie the end use a small bit of paper like a folded over sticky label on each end. I used to no someone that did that and they made the labels big enough to put the details of the programme on. So lined up on a shelf he could quickly read each label to find a programme. I fact you could put ither details like how much you paid etc.

Might give this a go if I get the time over the summer months. Just removing some of the rusted ones now, and when I take a closer look there are more than I though originally. Some programmes have 3 staples rusted, others none.

[Footyfan]

[quote="Footyfan"]The late, Norman Lovett, founder of the now defunct British Programme Collectors Club based in Hull, in the 1960'70s, advocated removing staples to prevent rusting from occurring. He actually wrote an article for the Football League Review magazine in which he explained why it was wise to remove staples when storing programmes.

I have managed to find the article referred to above - it is in League Football Vol 7 No 704. The article is primarily about a guy called Roger Cleveland who was the widely acknowledged as the "Programme King" with a collection of 30,000 programmes. Also a founder member of the now defunct British Programme Club. He disposed of his collection (except for a collection of FA Cup Finals 1923, 1933-1972) when he emigrated with his family to NZ in 1972.

As an interesting aside he states, I quote "I can't say I'm overly keen on the sophisticated magazine-programmes.....and thisnks that prices at 10p are too expensive...." I wonder what he would make of todays £3+ glossy magazines?

[cook]

Footyfan wrote:

He disposed of his collection (except for a collection of FA Cup Finals 1923, 1933-1972) when he emigrated with his family to NZ in 1972.

By disposed, I hope it wasn't straight to the tip

[Tynie Topics]

Personally, I leave rusty staples exactly where they are unless I think they will continue to rust (or are falling to bits), however given that the programmes are stored in a dry atmosphere then they never do (not in my experience anyway). Those storing them in sheds/garages/lofts might not be so lucky.

My personal opinion is that the staple is very much part of the programme, so why remove it unless absolutely neccesary?
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[mark01]

If you've got programmes that have rusty staples now in twenty years time you'll have diddly squit left. Good luck.

[Tynie Topics]

mark01 wrote:

If you've got programmes that have rusty staples now in twenty years time you'll have diddly squit left. Good luck.

I've got programmes that I bought 20 years ago that had rusty staples then, and there's no more/less rust on those staples today.

The programme in my avatar is 74 years old and has a rusty staple (not badly, it hasn't really affected the paper), but I bet its been rusty for 50 years.

As I said, in most cases it depends how you store them.
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[mark01]

As I say, best of luck!

[Tynie Topics]

mark01 wrote:

As I say, best of luck!

No luck required, I'm comfortable with my view of it
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[mark01]

Fair enough.

Lets hope you get some luck in receiving your free copy of Independent View - The Northern Programme Club Members' Mag that you keep moaning about!

[PABLO76]

Forum in "2 posters bitching at each other" shocker

[Tynie Topics]

PABLO76 wrote:

Forum in "2 posters bitching at each other" shocker

I'm not bitching at anyone
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[Footyfan]

[quote="Footyfan"]

Footyfan wrote:

The late, Norman Lovett, founder of the now defunct British Programme Collectors Club based in Hull, in the 1960'70s, advocated removing staples to prevent rusting from occurring. He actually wrote an article for the Football League Review magazine in which he explained why it was wise to remove staples when storing programmes. I have managed to find the article referred to above - it is in League Football Vol 7 No 704. The article is primarily about a guy called Roger Cleveland who was the widely acknowledged as the "Programme King" with a collection of 30,000 programmes. Also a founder member of the now defunct British Programme Club. He disposed of his collection (except for a collection of FA Cup Finals 1923, 1933-1972) when he emigrated with his family to NZ in 1972. As an interesting aside he states, I quote "I can't say I'm overly keen on the sophisticated magazine-programmes.....and thisnks that prices at 10p are too expensive...." I wonder what he would make of todays £3+ glossy magazines?

I can understand why some people will accept rusty staples and vice-versa and see no point in 'falling out' over it, after all it is a personal choice.

The reason I posted the story from League Review from 1972 (nearly 40 years ago) is to show what serious collectors advised, and the British Programme Club was a widely respected organisation with a limited membership of just 200, who were collecting before a lot of people on this forum were born.

Cook - "By disposed, I hope it wasn't straight to the tip"

He actually took his collection of FA Cup Finals with him to NZ but donated the rest of his collection to the British Programme Club.

[Tynie Topics]

Footyfan wrote:

The reason I posted the story from League Review from 1972 (nearly 40 years ago) is to show what serious collectors advised, and the British Programme Club was a widely respected organisation with a limited membership of just 200, who were collecting before a lot of people on this forum were born.

I expect it to have been very good advice as well.

All I was pointing out was that there is always another side to the theory, and that if the staple is already partly rusted and the programme is now being kept in dry conditions (eg. a room in your house which is centrally heated), then in my experience of 25 years in collecting, it’s not going to get any worse.

If however, programmes are stored in a garage or a shed or your loft which are unheated (or even an unheated room in your house), then the atmosphere could get damp – particularly through winter - which in turn could affect staples to the point where they may rust. In which case I would remove the staple at the first sign of deterioration.

I just don’t accept the mantra that if a staple is rusting, you have to remove it otherwise it will cause more damage, that isn’t necessarily the case. Plus, some collectors consider a staple to be an integral part of the programme so are reluctant to remove it for that reason [eg. I rarely buy programmes that are minus a staple(s) unless they are particularly rare]

(and I wasn’t bitching, merely indulging in some debate )
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