ASTON VILLA v DEUTSCHE AUSWAHL MANNSCHAFT TICKET 1938 (BER

[nagrom]

Match ticket for game against a German Select X1
Played at Olympia Station Reichssportfeld Berlin on 15 May 1938.
Not only did Villa refuse to give Nazi salute but also won 3-2 into the bargain!
Very good condition.

[bluejames]

How much?

[nagrom]

Actually was hoping for another member to be able to help with valuation
I have seen programme before but not the ticket and along with everything about the match would imagine it to be quite a rare item.
So cmon guys a bit of help appreciated.

[Pete’s Picture Palace]

nagrom wrote:

Actually was hoping for another member to be able to help with valuation I have seen programme before but not the ticket and along with everything about the match would imagine it to be quite a rare item. So cmon guys a bit of help appreciated.

I've had 2 or 3 press photos from this game, very collectable given the political situation, but maybe not very rare. Good luck.

[Flaming Pie]

You have probably already checked this, but a programme for the game sold for £ 210 in 2011. Not a ticket expert, but I would have thought the ticket must be a lot rarer, so a guess would be £300 plus. I like the story about the Villa lads being instructed to give the Nazi salute before kick off . They decided to give them the two finger salute instead and the crowd , not having a clue what it meant, gave them a round of applause.

[nagrom]

Thanks for replies.
I have collected Glasgow Rangers memorabilia for 50 years so quite astute re prices .
However due to what I thought regarding the item and as you say should be rarer than the programme so no harm in putting it out there for comments.

[Flaming Pie]

nagrom, any chance of you swopping the ticket for this ‘Slim Jim’ item? Only joking. l bet the great man was an ‘interesting ‘ soldier . Out of interest , what do you think is the value? I think l paid £15 a few years ago.

[colchestersid]

Flaming Pie wrote:

You have probably already checked this, but a programme for the game sold for £ 210 in 2011. Not a ticket expert, but I would have thought the ticket must be a lot rarer, so a guess would be £300 plus. I like the story about the Villa lads being instructed to give the Nazi salute before kick off . They decided to give them the two finger salute instead and the crowd , not having a clue what it meant, gave them a round of applause.

The truth was a bit more complicated.

The Villa team gave the Nazi salute before kick off but, with the game being so bad tempered, most of their players left the pitch at the final whistle without lining up to give the salute again.

It was standard practice for visiting teams in Germany to give the Nazi salute, West Ham (my team) did so with little fuss in Munich in 1934 (it was mentiond in the club handbook at the start of the next season with some approval)

[Flaming Pie]

Interesting stuff Sid, one team that definitely didn’t bow down to the Nazis was the Everton touring team of May 1932. Everton were instructed to perform the salute before each game of the four match tour. The Blues’ captain, Dixie Dean, told the officials no chance. At one of the games against Dresden, van Ribbentrop and Göring were present. Some very important people are here today was the message before the game. Once again Dixie told his team to keep their arms down. They did not perform the salute once during the tour. Apart from being a great goalscorer, Dean was a legend for other reasons as well.

[RoddyN]

Unlikely as the Nazis only came to power in January 1933.

[Flaming Pie]

Roddy, it certainly did happen. Hitler did not become Chancellor and take over control of the country until 1933, but everyone knows who was the most powerful and growing stronger by the day political party in 1932 Germany. Top Nazis attended the Dresden v Everton game in May 1932. The Everton players were instructed to give the Nazi salute. Dean told them not to. Please explain why you think this did not happen?

[RoddyN]

I take my hat off to Dixie Dean and the Everton team for taking this stance. I only said it was unlikely because this was some months prior to the establishment of the Third Reich. Of course I know very well that it was exceedingly likely that the Nazis would come to power and that they were already a huge force in the land but I did not realise that they had ordered Everton to give the salute prior to becoming the ruling Party. Many thanks for this information. Having googled this, I see that there was even a play made on this theme.

[Flaming Pie]

Hi Roddy, l don’t think Dixie was particularly political, but he wouldn’t take kindly to being told what to do. There is a pub , Rigbys, in Dale Street, Liverpool. There was a little old bloke who would have a few beers there. I had a chat with him once . It turned out that he was Billy Cook, N lreland lnternational and Everton full- back 1930s era. It appears that Dixie , as captain, really was a strong influence on the team. Before the 1933 FA Cup Final against Man City, one of the Everton directors walked into the dressing room ( no manager in those days) and started issuing instructions to the team. According to Cook, Dixie told him to mind his own business and asked him to leave. When you think about it, for such a formidable centre- forward , Dean really should have won more caps. Perhaps the football establishment at the time did not take kindly to such a self confident player? By all accounts, Wolves legendary manager of the 1950s, Stan Cullis, was the only member of the 1938 England team that refused to perform the Nazi salute before playing against Germany. Cullis played in war - time internationals , but was never selected for England again.

[Flaming Pie]

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