Football Programmes Centre

REPRINTS - HOW COMMON?
AlbumAlbum   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   My Wants ListMy Wants List   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
REPRINTS - HOW COMMON?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Football Programme Forum Index -> Queries About Football Programmes
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Footyfan



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 343

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:21 pm 
Post subject: REPRINTS - HOW COMMON?
Reply with quote

As a collector I have always been wary of REPRINTS but have only come across a couple involving my team Leeds Utd. The 1973 European Cup Winners Cup Leeds Utd v AC Milan played in Salonika appears regularly on EBay plus there is also a REPRINT version of the 1970 FA Cup Final Replay Chelsea v Leeds Utd.
The only other programme I am aware of is the 1958 FA Cup Final Bolton v Manchester Utd where the give away is the scorer is marked
http://www.centrespot.net/cpindex.html
I know in the early 2000s Leeds Utd sold a Souvenir Pack that included several reprints but these were clearly marked as REPRINTS inside the front cover.
Are REPRINTS common with other clubs and if so is it only for major games like Finals?


Last edited by Footyfan on Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Dorking



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 1796

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:39 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

Crystal Palace - there was a period in time when Home programmes included a reprint stapled inside it. Off the top of my head, the first game at Selhurst Park (1924) against The Wednesday. Sunderland at home 1969? Probably one or two others.

The reprint of the 1924 first game at Selhurst was in my opinion a fantastic idea, as 99.9% of fans and collectors would have never seen it, and it is a very interesting programme for the content in it from a historical point of view.

I think Southampton away in the Cup a few years ago featured a reprint of the 1976 (Palace v Southampton) Semi Final programme.

I believe the 'Class of 92' Youth Cup Final 2nd leg at Old Trafford (Man Utd v Palace) has been reproduced for some sort of Man Utd memorabilia package.


I'm not aware of any of the above having ever been attempted to be passed off as originals, or sold as such.

Most of the ones that have been reprinted (bar the 1924 one) are not especially rare or expensive to obtain, but of interest to modern readers


The paper used in ALL of the reprints I have mentioned above is usually a complete giveaway though, most people who know programmes wouldn't fall for it!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Footyfan



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 343

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:13 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

The 1973 Cup Winners Cup Reprint from the 1980s appears on EBay at regular intervals with some sellers listing it as a VIP issue!

REPRINT
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ORIGINAL-1973-ECWC-FINAL-LEEDS-UNITED-V-AC-MILAN-UNUSUAL-BLUE-COVER-EDITION/372398038037?hash=item56b4a71c15:g:m04AAOSwmzZbbeZs:rk:23:pf:0

ORIGINAL
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1973-CUP-WINNERS-CUP-FINAL-PROGRAMME-AC-MILAN-v-LEEDS-UTD-ORIGINAL/182698766495?hash=item2a89b1f09f:g:zt4AAOSwqklZgf8Z:rk:32:pf:0

I have seen a few Reprints included inside programmes over the years.

The 1974 Aston Villa v Leeds Centenary game programme included a a reprint of the Villa News from 1906 versus Blackburn Rovers. The 1974 programme appears on EBay regularly minus the Reprint. The 1906 Reprint has appeared on EBay.

In the first ever Play Off series in 1986/87 both Oldham Athletic and Leeds Utd included Reprints in the Play Off Semi-Final programmes - Oldham had a 1907 Oldham v Leeds City reprint and Leeds had a 1963/64 Leeds v Plymouth Argyle reprint.


Last edited by Footyfan on Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:08 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
PhilWBA



Joined: 08 Feb 2013
Posts: 240
Location: Oldbury, West Midlands

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:00 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

Only West Brom one I can think off is a reprint of our first ever issue v Burnley in 1906, was given away in 1980/81 with the programme against Norwich
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flaming Pie



Joined: 26 Nov 2016
Posts: 511

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:34 pm 
Post subject: REPRINTS- HOW COMMON?
Reply with quote

The programme for Bill Shankly’s first Liverpool game as manager against Cardiff, Dec 1959, was reproduced inside a home programme a couple of years ago. I remember a stall holder at a car boot having a repro of the 1933 Everton v Manchester City 1933 FA Cup Final programme. He was looking for quite a few quid for it. Being a know all, l politely told him that it it looked like a repro and pointed out that l don’t think they had barcodes in the 1930s, there was one on the back of it. He wouldn’t have it and told me to go away, or words to that effect. I was a bit disappointed,, I thought he would thank me for educating him about reprinted programmes! Wasn’t there a repro of a very early Sheffield Wed v Sheffield Unt programme inside a Wednesday programme a few years back? Just remembered, l think the Everton v Fulham May 1963 title clincher programme was also reproduced in a memorabilia pack that some company produced.


Last edited by Flaming Pie on Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
badhand



Joined: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 175

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:41 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

I can only think of one related to Bristol Rovers.

Bristol Rovers played away at Kettering in the FA Cup (and lost!) on 10.12.88

The match programme included a reprint of the programme from a earlier FA Cup game between the two sides on 8.1.69

As far as I remember it wasn't marked as a reprint and looks quite similar to the original.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ronsaunders



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 213

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:46 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

PhilWBA wrote:
Only West Brom one I can think off is a reprint of our first ever issue v Burnley in 1906, was given away in 1980/81 with the programme against Norwich
West Brom also distributed a reprint of the 32-33 Cup tie programme against Villa with the programme from 89/90 from memory.


Last edited by Ronsaunders on Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Footyfan



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 343

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:38 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

PhilWBA wrote:
Only West Brom one I can think off is a reprint of our first ever issue v Burnley in 1906, was given away in 1980/81 with the programme against Norwich


There is a Manchester Utd v WEst Brom 1963/64 - George Best Debut - clearly marked REPLICA currently listed on EBay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
sharrowblade
Forum Moderator


Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 3138
Location: Beautiful Downtown Bramall Lane

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:56 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

They are reprints and there are reprints I suspect.

By that, the majority of reprints supplied in programmes are obviously produced as an interesting historical feature.

The Sheffield United/Wednesday one that Pie alluded to was a 1911 reprint which was supplied in our home game against them in 1970.

We also did a reprint of our 1st ever (v Derby in 1897) in our centenary programme in 1989
In recent seasons Millwall did one against us and our near neighbours did a reprint of the Boxing day massacre programme. They do like to hark on about it.

Only today, I noticed Cardiff did a reprint of the 1927 Final from a programme of theirs from 2009.

None of these could be mistaken for being originals. The problem appears to be when programmes are printed shortly afterwards such as the World Cup Final. Isn't there a Liverpool european final against Borussia Monchengladbach or somebody that has fooled a few people in the past? Its not long ago that the post war Ipswich one was discussed on here.
_________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sharrowblade/sets
A Sheffield United Programme guide
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Wants List
seand



Joined: 07 Jan 2009
Posts: 668
Location: Dublin

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:33 am 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

There have a been a few ‘souvenir’ packs produced recently, but most would be obvious enough.
And a few others not mentioned already:
Man City had a reprint of the 1956 FA cup final programme given away free in a programme in the last few years.
The 2009 FA Cup final programme (last at old Wembley) included a reprint of the 1923 final
Dundalk included ‘reprints’ of historic programmes in some recent programmes, all pretty obviously reprinted. The 2015 FAI Cup semi v Longford included a reprint of the very rare 71-2 Longford v Dundalk FAI Cup programme, the same season FAI Cup game v Sligo included a reprint of the very common 1981 FAI Cup final between the clubs.
Chelsea v Spurs 84-5 (Chelsea v Spurs1909-10)
Everton v Liverpool 73-4 (Everton v Liverpool 32-3)
Ipswich v Stoke 88-9 (Ipswich v Villa 38-9 FAC)- I’m pretty sure Ipswich included reprints in most programmes that season.
I have a clearly modern Hartlepool v Man Utd 56-7 FA Cup reprint, not sure where that came from .
Man Utd v Liverpool 06-7 (MU v Charlton 56-7)
Tranmere v Spurs 89-90 LC (Tranmere v Spurs 52-3 FAC)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Wants List
Flaming Pie



Joined: 26 Nov 2016
Posts: 511

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:51 am 
Post subject: REPRINTS- HOW COMMON?
Reply with quote

Seand, the great Dixie Dean played for Sligo 1938- 39. I think they signed him in Jan 1939 in an attempt to win the Irish FA Cup They got to the final but lost in a replay. Do you have any idea if programmes exist with him in the Sligo line-up? I have never seen any. Perhaps they were not produced?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
garyspain



Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 704

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:14 am 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

I know this is old hat but maybe no harm in repeating this. Appreciate it is more about fakes than reprints but identifying these is the issue.

Programmes produced up to approx the mid 1970's were done using letterpress. Real issues can easily be identified by running fingers lightly over the page and feeling the very slight indentation.

More info here

https://cycleback.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/cycleback_authenticating_prints.pdf

There were stories here in Ireland that a collector (not of football memorabilia) obtained a significant quantity of old paper and photocopied some old items on to it. In one case he borrowed some items from a collector and returned copies and this wasn't noticed for a few months.

A different person living elsewhere on this island (I'm not aware of a connection) forged a 1948 4 page issue on old paper. I have an original and a friend bought the copy. I must admit I was unsure regarding the copy but the absence of letterpress was a telling factor. We brought mine and his into the Dublin print museum as many old-timers meet there on a Saturday morning. Before he handled it the printer was certain it was a fake and he duly pointed out the examples after a thorough examination. It was photocopied onto old paper. He stared work as a printer aged 15 in 1947.

My friend's source was a trusted collector but hen we heard his source.......I suspect there are other forgeries out there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
garyspain



Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 704

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:18 am 
Post subject: Re: REPRINTS- HOW COMMON?
Reply with quote

Flaming Pie wrote:
Seand, the great Dixie Dean played for Sligo 1938- 39. I think they signed him in Jan 1939 in an attempt to win the Irish FA Cup They got to the final but lost in a replay. Do you have any idea if programmes exist with him in the Sligo line-up? I have never seen any. Perhaps they were not produced?


Programmes exist for the FAI Cup semi final v Dundalk and the final and replay v Shelbourne. Sligo Rovers were also prolific programme producers and did issue during the 1938/39 season. However they are very scarce. I need the Limerick one and have never seen it for sale.

Happy to send scans if you drop me a PM.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flaming Pie



Joined: 26 Nov 2016
Posts: 511

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:56 pm 
Post subject: REPRINTS-HOW COMMON?
Reply with quote

Gary thanks for that info. I was involved in a project involving Dixie nearly thirty years ago. Copies of a programme with Dixie in the Sligo team would have then been invaluable, but that’s all in the past. I did write to Sligo Library at the time for copies of match reports. They kindly sent me the actual newspapers! . Good people. Back to the reprints topic, l have got a few original SAN Francisco 1960s concert posters, lm pretty certain reprints of these are being passed off as originals. If you go to the Brazil v lreland May 1974 topic l will attempt to take a picture of something relating to the game.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flaming Pie



Joined: 26 Nov 2016
Posts: 511

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:17 pm 
Post subject: Brazil v Eire May 1974
Reply with quote

I obtained this silver salva relating to the Brazil v Eire May 1974 game recently. This was the first time Eire played Brazil in an official match. I don’t think it would have produced for the souvenir market. Surely World Cup momentoes would have been more marketable? The game was a warm up before Brazil , the reigning champions, took part in the 1974 World Cup. Eire were on a tour of South America. It is written in Portuguese. It simply says : Brazil= lrlanda 1974. Could this have been presented to the Eire players/ Officials before or after the game? It obviously relates to the occasion, but not certain how. Has anyone come across any others? Thanks for any ideas. Size about 7ins diameter. Sorry ,should have been in its own topic section but pressed wrong button!


Last edited by Flaming Pie on Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
garyspain



Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 704

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:24 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

Yes nice item. Saw it on ebay and as you said most likely it was presented to one of the travelling party. I've seen items like that from other games although I had not seen that one before it appeared on ebay.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flaming Pie



Joined: 26 Nov 2016
Posts: 511

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:39 pm 
Post subject: REPRlNTS- HOW COMMON?
Reply with quote

Thanks Gary, l have got a feeling that this will end up back in Dublin. There’s a few Eire fanatics ( distant relatives) over there that would probably love it. Might give it to one of them on the next visit. Was over in lnchicore and Kildare last May for the first time in twenty years. That St Patrick’s Ground in lnchicore is unique . I remember watching them a few times as a kid. I forgot that you appear to enter the ground through someone’s front door. Wasn’t Terry Venables over there once on a scouting mission. The story goes that he knocked on the door and enquired , “excuse me , is there a football ground at the back of your house” ? Sorry footyfan highjackng your topic with this stuff.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
garyspain



Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 704

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:52 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

Terry Venables played for Pats in 1976. Great little ground.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
derby1884
Forum Moderator


Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 3087
Location: the very western edge of Aberdeen

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:10 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

A number of years ago - probably nearer thirty than twenty - there were rumours that the 46/7 Wolves v Derby issue had been cleverly reprinted without any warning to the buyer.

I'd quite forgotten about that until I saw this thread.

Here's my copy - if any Wolves expert cares to take a look, please let me know if this looks genuine or not!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/derby1884/23361483314/in/album-72157662128339009/
_________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/derby1884/sets/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yachtsmun



Joined: 27 Sep 2009
Posts: 304
Location: Vectis

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:58 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

These maybe haven’t been mentioned because they’re so well known, and the telling signs well documented, but...

1966 World Cup Final several reprints
1923 FA Cup Final at least two reprints
1977 European Cup Final
1985 European Cup Final

It seems most pre-WW2 cup finals are now available as reprints, but I suspect most of these are printed to order, rather than being an actual ‘edition’.

And just for idiosyncratic value, the Newport (IW) v Aylesbury 1st round FAC programme from 94-5 was reprinted, with absolutely no discernible differences from the original.
_________________
Always looking for pre-1980 Cowes homes, pre-1987 Cowes aways, and any other bits and bobs relating to Cowes F.C. and I.W. football in general. Someone has to.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
| More
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Football Programme Forum Index -> Queries About Football Programmes All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum