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Following on from the Staceys post re: Credit Cards
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Following on from the Staceys post re: Credit Cards
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Fishy



Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:20 pm 
Post subject: Following on from the Staceys post re: Credit Cards
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Tooveys commission prices for their auction on 23rd January:

Buyer’s Premium 29.4% (including VAT @ 20%) of the hammer price. Lots purchased online via the-saleroom.com will attract an additional charge of 6% (including VAT @ 20%) of the hammer price.

Guess who won't be bidding on anything from there.............. Shocked
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Auchinleckian
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:07 pm 
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They're shooting themselves in the foot there, those kinds of prices are unsustainable and bordering on theft.
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Dorking



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:25 pm 
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Ridiculous level of add-ons! More than a third on top if using the-saleroom!
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New Forest



Joined: 05 Jun 2017
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:28 pm 
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I can understand why the Government want to do away with the surcharge on Credit Cards. What amazes me is how people react to it. If you pay by Debit Card then you avoid any extra charges. If you use a Credit Card you still pay extra unless you pay off the lot at the end of the month.

I am annoyed that the auction houses do impose such high commissions. But, it is the same for everyone. If you do not want to use a particular auction house it will result in lower hammer prices, which could be good news for the bidder. That may mean I obtain rare programmes for less than I might have done.

It won't stop me from bidding on items I need. I can also take in the extra costs when deciding what to bid.
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sharrowblade
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:28 pm 
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Still can't see any justification for having a buyer's premium.
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slightfold



Joined: 13 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:06 pm 
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I agree with Sharrowblade. The buyer's commission crept in and then once accepted, crept up. This was a way of auctioneers being paid twice! If you are selling you could lose getting on for half of the amount bid once both the seller's and buyer's charges are added together and taken from the total selling price! Obviously auctioneers will point out the need for these fees to provide the service they do, yeah! Now some are looking to ratchet up prices even more than the actual cost to cover the money 'lost' for on credit card commissions.
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Tynie Topics



Joined: 26 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:15 pm 
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sharrowblade wrote:
Still can't see any justification for having a buyer's premium.


There's none at all, the cost should be borne by the vendor.
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amazorblade



Joined: 28 May 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:25 am 
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If there is no buyers premium then no-one will sell items at auction. There would be no money in it for the vendor.

If you use Tooveys example above - an item sold for £100 would net the vendor £74 (£8 lotting fee and £18 sale fees (15% + vat). The purchaser would pay and additional £35.40 (29.4% plus £6 saleroom). If you put that cost onto the vendor , whos going to put up an item for sale at £100 to net £38.60?

At the end of the day this all boils down to knowing what you will pay to the auction house before you bid and adjust your maximum bids accordingly.
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TheMusic



Joined: 13 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:14 pm 
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That's only if the current number of auction houses should be maintained though, no?

For example, if there were fewer auction houses, those still in existence could take on more business, pass some of that profit onto buyers by cutting their premiums and thereby improve their image and presumably attract more regular and semi-regular customers in the future.

As it is, isn't it just a case of too many auction houses trying to get their slice of the pie by exploiting the limited number of collectors and in the process simply causing more harm to the market?

Of course, in any walk of life, one can say "well, you know the rules in advance", but does that mean those rules should stay like that, to the detriment of collectors and sometimes vendors too?
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CodeXIII



Joined: 07 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:26 pm 
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and another reason why Ebay will be around to mop up casual big ticket item buyers and sellers like me.
there's no way im paying 30% more for an item that i can potentially buy online without any fees apart from postage.
Yes, i might have to wait a while for the nuggets to appear on Ebay but that's my choice.

They're cutting their own throats. Bizarre!
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TheSorter!



Joined: 07 May 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:56 pm 
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What about Sheffield Auction Gallery charging £12 to put one programme in an envelope!! Postage extra! Shocked An absolute con!
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sharrowblade
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:43 pm 
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amazorblade wrote:
If there is no buyers premium then no-one will sell items at auction. There would be no money in it for the vendor.

If you use Tooveys example above - an item sold for £100 would net the vendor £74 (£8 lotting fee and £18 sale fees (15% + vat). The purchaser would pay and additional £35.40 (29.4% plus £6 saleroom). If you put that cost onto the vendor , whos going to put up an item for sale at £100 to net £38.60?

At the end of the day this all boils down to knowing what you will pay to the auction house before you bid and adjust your maximum bids accordingly.


No buyers premium nobody sells at auction.
Not sure about this. How did they go on before this was introduced?

The purchaser would pay and additional £35.40 (29.4% plus £6 saleroom). If you put that cost onto the vendor , whos going to put up an item for sale at £100 to net £38.60?
Don't think anyone is suggesting the amount that the purchaser currently pays as well as the vendors fee's should be all heaped upon the vendor.

At the end of the day this all boils down to knowing what you will pay to the auction house before you bid and adjust your maximum bids accordingly.
Just because that's the way it is,.... doesn't make it right, or actually explains why it is common practice
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goonerboy



Joined: 24 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:55 am 
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I guess another issue in this debate is what auction houses sell. I often look at sale results and most auctions end up only selling around 65% of items. Maybe they need to be more particular about the items they sell. If they increased the percentage of sold items then they would have more scope to reduce fees but still make money.

With costs of auction buying going higher and higher then hammer prices will surely start to get negatively impacted. Of course the rare items will still go for good money because there are enough buyers who will pay what it takes but there are a lot of more routine items or those plethora of job lots for which there will be a downward shift.

In general buyers premium is an unbelievable and outrageous concept. Its like going to a high street store and then at the counter being told you have to pay 25-30 % more for the privilege of buying it. Let's hope buyers vote with their feet until some decency sets in.

Maybe eBay is not perfect but at least buyers have a straightforward outcome. You pay a price for the item and that's it. No extras or costs which just go into a third party pocket.
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Flaming Pie



Joined: 26 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:13 pm 
Post subject: Following on from Staceys
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Couldn't agree more goonerboy .Auction houses are really only for ultra - rare items. I have decided to learn this year how to sell on Ebay. I placed some items recently in an auction house not far from where l live.They sold for just under £200.When the cheque came( after auction costs ) it was for £83. Of course, it was up to me to check all of these costs out before placing them with them, but didn't expect this level of fees . l wish they would spell this out more clearly to viewers on the TV auction programmes. "Here we have got Betty, who has just sold her late husband's collection of football programmes for £300. After auction costs we work it out that Betty will receive just over £232". Oh yeah!
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New Forest



Joined: 05 Jun 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:46 pm 
Post subject: Re: Following on from Staceys
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Flaming Pie wrote:
Couldn't agree more goonerboy .Auction houses are really only for ultra - rare items. I have decided to learn this year how to sell on Ebay. I placed some items recently in an auction house not far from where l live.They sold for just under £200.When the cheque came( after auction costs ) it was for £83. Of course, it was up to me to check all of these costs out before placing them with them, but didn't expect this level of fees . l wish they would spell this out more clearly to viewers on the TV auction programmes. "Here we have got Betty, who has just sold her late husband's collection of football programmes for £300. After auction costs we work it out that Betty will receive just over £232". Oh yeah!


Your thinking is all wrong. You use an auction house for rare items only, where you hope to get the best possible prices For run-of-the-mill items use eBay. The rubbish goes into eBay BIN.

Some top auction houses only accept items above a minimal amount. From your figures given the commission seems to be over 50%! Either I am out of touch or you should use another auction house. At least name them so the rest of us can avoid them.
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Flaming Pie



Joined: 26 Nov 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:57 pm 
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I think l said auction houses are really for rarer items, eBay for lesser items.Saying that , some incredible prices recently on eBay for Scottish programmes! I found a statement for a recent auction that l put items into.Here it is::
Sale proceeds £150
Less commission £48
FlSC £32-40
Net amount £69
Brought forward (GS300317) £7-20
Total due to vendor £62-40

So l was hit for over 50% costs.My own fault, l should have checked this out.
To be fair to some non - specialist auction houses, they don't really know the value of lots of sports items , so instead of advising you that they are not really worth putting in because of auction costs, they give them a go. Perhaps where you live you are not hit for such high costs? Not prepared to name .Haven't got the funds. Even when you are right, you can be found wrong in libel cases!


Last edited by Flaming Pie on Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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martino



Joined: 21 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:30 pm 
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On top of the seller's commission a lot of Auction Houses now charge for other things, e.g. a lotting fee, photograph(s) for The Saleroom / Catalogue so the costs can rise rapidly.
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Pete’s Picture Palace
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:05 pm 
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Just to say and in contrast to all the above, Sporting Memorys are listing a friend of mine's cricket autograph book with no charge whatsoever and a 15% commission on sale - no sale, no fee.

Can't ask for fairer than that and credit where it's due.
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pafcprogs



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:08 pm 
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I have always been treated very well by Chris and his team at Sportingold...as buyer and seller...
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martino



Joined: 21 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:22 pm 
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Pete’s Picture Palace wrote:
Just to say and in contrast to all the above, Sporting Memorys are listing a friend of mine's cricket autograph book with no charge whatsoever and a 15% commission on sale - no sale, no fee.

Can't ask for fairer than that and credit where it's due.


Agreed, Peter. We must be careful not to criticize all Auction Houses for profiteering.
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