other away progs of Scotland...

[jongbloed69]

someone told me about Belgium vs Norway rare EC prog. (match played in 1978), so perhaps there was also Belgium vs Scotland EC 1979...

Tomas Habrctl, czech seller, is sure about a rare Czechoslovakia vs Scotland (Bratislava 1973) WC match prog.

if it's so, how much ?

- and Denmark vs Scotland EC 1975, rare or not?

many thanks for an answer! Camillo, Italy

[Tynie Topics]

jongbloed69 wrote:

someone told me about Belgium vs Norway rare EC prog. (match played in 1978), so perhaps there was also Belgium vs Scotland EC 1979... Tomas Habrctl, czech seller, is sure about a rare Czechoslovakia vs Scotland (Bratislava 1973) WC match prog.

No programme was issued for either match.

Quote:

- and Denmark vs Scotland EC 1975, rare or not?

This is another difficult programme to obtain, maybe make £50-£100 on ebay.
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[Gorgie Guest]

I have a copy of the above program which is in OK condition. Any idea of its value would be greatly appreciated?

Game was played on 12 June 1949 at the Yellow Jackets stadium Philadelphia with the front cover containing the term "World's Champions" after the visiting team name!

It is quite a large publication and I believe there wasn't a massive attendance on the day, so this might be quite rare?

[Tynie Topics]

Gorgie Guest wrote:

I have a copy of the above program which is in OK condition. Any idea of its value would be greatly appreciated? Game was played on 12 June 1949 at the Yellow Jackets stadium Philadelphia with the front cover containing the term "World's Champions" after the visiting team name! It is quite a large publication and I believe there wasn't a massive attendance on the day, so this might be quite rare?

Philadelphia All Stars v Scotland? difficult to say, doesn't appear too often, would have to be £100+ I would imagine.

It's not a Full International, the SFA did not award caps for these games from the 1949 tour.
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[Gorgie Guest]

Tynie Topics wrote:

Gorgie Guest wrote: I have a copy of the above program which is in OK condition. Any idea of its value would be greatly appreciated? Game was played on 12 June 1949 at the Yellow Jackets stadium Philadelphia with the front cover containing the term "World's Champions" after the visiting team name! It is quite a large publication and I believe there wasn't a massive attendance on the day, so this might be quite rare? Philadelphia All Stars v Scotland? difficult to say, doesn't appear too often, would have to be £100+ I would imagine. It's not a Full International, the SFA did not award caps for these games from the 1949 tour.

Many thanks for your reply which is a pleasant surprise and very helpful! As you can see, I'm new to here so I'm slowly finding my way around. If you need any info on Hearts stuff, give me a shout.
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Collector of Heart of Midlothian programmes and memorabilia.

[garyspain]

Tynie Topics wrote:

Gorgie Guest wrote: I have a copy of the above program which is in OK condition. Any idea of its value would be greatly appreciated? Game was played on 12 June 1949 at the Yellow Jackets stadium Philadelphia with the front cover containing the term "World's Champions" after the visiting team name! It is quite a large publication and I believe there wasn't a massive attendance on the day, so this might be quite rare? Philadelphia All Stars v Scotland? difficult to say, doesn't appear too often, would have to be £100+ I would imagine. It's not a Full International, the SFA did not award caps for these games from the 1949 tour.

No idea on the Philly v Scotland one in particular but Belfast Celtic were on that tour and probably min £300 for any of theirs. You would pay significantly more for the Celtic v Scotland single sheet issue.

I need NE All Stars v Belfast Celtic in Fall River and it is not known to exist to the nest of my knowledge.

Belgium were always hit and miss with programmes.

[Tynie Topics]

Gorgie Guest wrote:

Many thanks for your reply which is a pleasant surprise and very helpful! As you can see, I'm new to here so I'm slowly finding my way around. If you need any info on Hearts stuff, give me a shout.

No probs, my Scotland website should be fully back on line in a wee while, and that has scans of all known issues for the 1949 USA/Canada tour.

My Hearts wants are fairly limited as I’ve cut back on a lot of my collection, I need three Hibs aways 1940’s to complete the derby issues. The only other Hearts stuff I ever add to these days is Europeans and Semi/Finals. I sold all my pre-1955 Hearts – plus a few rarities from other seasons - to help plug some gaps in the Scotland collection.
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[Tynie Topics]

garyspain wrote:

No idea on the Philly v Scotland one in particular but Belfast Celtic were on that tour and probably min £300 for any of theirs. You would pay significantly more for the Celtic v Scotland single sheet issue. I need NE All Stars v Belfast Celtic in Fall River and it is not known to exist to the nest of my knowledge. Belgium were always hit and miss with programmes.

Agree Gary, that Belfast Celtic v Scotland is never seen, would probably exceed £500 with a few fighting over it, if one ever came on the market.
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/footballprogrammes/albums

[garyspain]

Tynie Topics wrote:

garyspain wrote: No idea on the Philly v Scotland one in particular but Belfast Celtic were on that tour and probably min £300 for any of theirs. You would pay significantly more for the Celtic v Scotland single sheet issue. I need NE All Stars v Belfast Celtic in Fall River and it is not known to exist to the nest of my knowledge. Belgium were always hit and miss with programmes. Agree Gary, that Belfast Celtic v Scotland is never seen, would probably exceed £500 with a few fighting over it, if one ever came on the market.

I don't recall seeing one on sale before. Given the iconic nature of the game it could sell for anything.

[Tynie Topics]

garyspain wrote:

I don't recall seeing one on sale before. Given the iconic nature of the game it could sell for anything.

True, it was one of their last games wasn't it?
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[garyspain]

Tynie Topics wrote:

garyspain wrote: I don't recall seeing one on sale before. Given the iconic nature of the game it could sell for anything. True, it was one of their last games wasn't it?

The ten match tour proved to be the last games they ever played. This was the 6th game of the tour and the fact that they beat Scotland 2-0 makes it even more iconic.

The programme was a single sheet American Soccer news issue and is a double issue for the Philly Nationals game v Celtic played the following day. The other single sheet issues for that tour turn up more often particularly the first game v New York All Stars. I don't know why the Scotland one is particularly rare.

[manchesterunitedman1]

garyspain wrote:

Tynie Topics wrote: Gorgie Guest wrote: I have a copy of the above program which is in OK condition. Any idea of its value would be greatly appreciated? Game was played on 12 June 1949 at the Yellow Jackets stadium Philadelphia with the front cover containing the term "World's Champions" after the visiting team name! It is quite a large publication and I believe there wasn't a massive attendance on the day, so this might be quite rare? Philadelphia All Stars v Scotland? difficult to say, doesn't appear too often, would have to be £100+ I would imagine. It's not a Full International, the SFA did not award caps for these games from the 1949 tour. No idea on the Philly v Scotland one in particular but Belfast Celtic were on that tour and probably min £300 for any of theirs. You would pay significantly more for the Celtic v Scotland single sheet issue. I need NE All Stars v Belfast Celtic in Fall River and it is not known to exist to the nest of my knowledge. Belgium were always hit and miss with programmes.

Hi Gary

Fall River also a nightmare for MUFC touring in 1950 and 1952, especially as some of the tour games had superb programmes, even the American Soccer News sheets are very welcome but Fall River!!!!!

[garyspain]

Leslie thanks. Last I heard was that no issues are known for Manchester United's visits to Fall River. Is this still the case?

[treble99]

I have never seen a programme for either game in Fall River in 50 years of collecting
Neither have the Manchester United museum
I think it's a fair bet that they didn't issue
Following on the theme that other clubs visiting that area also haven't found anything you can see the pattern can't you

After all these were not competitive games but part of the reason to give the players a club paid holiday

In 1950 United beat New England All Stars 2 0 at Fall River in front of 3704
In 1952 United beat Fall River in front of a crowd of 3102

I have a feeling i've seen some photos in the past from the personal camera of one of the United players and it was a school field with a rope around it

[manchesterunitedman1]

garyspain wrote:

Leslie thanks. Last I heard was that no issues are known for Manchester United's visits to Fall River. Is this still the case?

Yes nothing has ever surfaced so I would say it is a fair bet nothing was ever produced which for the USA is astonishing as they were at the forefront of marketing their sporting events, not to have even produced a piece of scruffy paper seems incredulous, BUT 60 odd years later and nothing around kind of tells u it is not going to happen!

Anyway for all the Scottish collectors on the Forum I have this to share from the 1952 North American Soccer Guide

[garyspain]

5 years ago Kennedy FC v Belfast Celtic in Detroit 1949 appeared on ebay. I wasn't aware of it before then and never saw a copy since. I got it for £415 which I though was reasonable enough.

So if a Fall river one ever appeared I'd hope it to be in that ballpark. If one v Man Utd appeared there would be another digit in the price. That is assuming one of the Dutch master forgers doesn't get to work.

[manchesterunitedman1]

treble99 wrote:

I have never seen a programme for either game in Fall River in 50 years of collecting Neither have the Manchester United museum I think it's a fair bet that they didn't issue Following on the theme that other clubs visiting that area also haven't found anything you can see the pattern can't you After all these were not competitive games but part of the reason to give the players a club paid holiday In 1950 United beat New England All Stars 2 0 at Fall River in front of 3704 In 1952 United beat Fall River in front of a crowd of 3102 I have a feeling i've seen some photos in the past from the personal camera of one of the United players and it was a school field with a rope around it

Not wishing to BARGE IN but after checking the records United scraped home in 1952 against Fall River by 11-1.
Furthermore the North American Soccer Guide states that the 2 games where United played Tottenham Hotspur in Toronto on the 14th June and had a return game the next day the 15th at the Yankee Stadium the gross receipts for both games were a staggering $96,000[and the rate of exchange back then was around $4 to the £]so it may have been a free trip for the United team as a thanks for winning the First Division Title because since 1946-7 they had finished runners up 4 times out of 6 attempts!, The United club then as now would not travel abroad unless guarantees were given to them of funds so they knew they were going to make money in 1950 and 1952 just as they have done in recent seasons but the gap is monumental and $96k for 2 games to see the English Champions of the 1st and 2nd Division was a fortune then but now they would take more on Hot Dogs, Peanuts and Coca Cola as the last tour had record attendances of over 100,000 to see United play Real Madrid.

[manchesterunitedman1]

garyspain wrote:

5 years ago Kennedy FC v Belfast Celtic in Detroit 1949 appeared on ebay. I wasn't aware of it before then and never saw a copy since. I got it for £415 which I though was reasonable enough. So if a Fall river one ever appeared I'd hope it to be in that ballpark. If one v Man Utd appeared there would be another digit in the price. That is assuming one of the Dutch master forgers doesn't get to work.

Gary, judging by that half wits attempt last time to re-produce the 1956-7 European Cup Semi-Final in Madrid-I do not think any of us have much to worry about, especially as he produced another gem using the same font and style from the 1980's when the typeface had not been invented in 1957! Total Muppet but someone did get caught out until he was exposed.

[Tynie Topics]

Scotland beat the New England All Stars 3-1 in Fall River on 15th June 1949 (the next match after the Philadelphia one mentioned above), in front of 4,045.

It is the only match of the 9 game tour where no programme is known to exist.
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[treble99]

i must admit i found this thread interesting

Talking about quality items existing or not existing from the early days of tours to the States got me at it

I did a little research and found out that not only did Fall River not produce for Manchester United tours of 1950 and 1952 they also didn't produce when Manchester United played the New England All Stars at Fall River on 8/6/1960 winning 7 0
So what use were these "no games" to Manchester United?
Why did they keep going back to a small crowd and no obvious income?
There must have been a reason.Was it a cross roads town on the way to or from somewhere?

By way of help to anybody with any geography knowledge of the USA i offer up the programme(well what is recognised as the programme anyway) of the game in 1952 between Manchester United v New York select played on 18/6/1952
From here United travelled to Fall River to playa Fall River All Stars before returning to New York to play Stuttgart a week later
The schedule is actually shown on the reverse which i have also scanned
So what is the affiliation/reason for this often repeated trip?
What is in Fall River to draw so many teams for a nothing game in front of a small crowd.

Finally a financial teaser
What value would you put on this programme
It has only ever surfaced once.Well twice actually but it was the same programme
It sold at auction in April 2000 for £560.For reasons i can't remember i stopped at this amount and was the underbidder
It then finally resurfaced in March 2013 on ebay when i had a big "B" next to it
You don't want to know what my top bid was as somebody might tell my wife and i could be in trouble and need to start averaging but i got it at £1070
Interestingly there was obviously a lot of interest and bids but only twp of us went past the magical £1000 mark
Everybody else was at £500/600 except of course the £5.99 men


So in the current market where would you value it?





If you like American tours then fill your socks
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