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historians-oldest known programme

 
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tbfacsm



Joined: 13 Dec 2015
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:12 pm 
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Here is one for historians.

At the recent excellent auction of Sporting Memory's there were on offer bound volumes of several clubs.
Some had been seen before such as those of Arsenal and Spurs and Chelsea.
The reason being that Joe public could send in his couple of quid at the end of the season and buy a bound volume for his library shelf.
Chelsea i know for sure started this tradition in their first season of existence and as such the Chelsea volume 1 number 1 is known and had been reproduced by the late Scott Cheshire.
I am aware that Sheffield United produced programmes back into the 1800's
So did Everton as can be seen in the David France collection
Now at Sporting Memory's there were 2 bound volumes from season 1913/14 and 1914/15.Personally i struggle to remember even seeing Burnley programmes from the 1920's never mind pre first war
Some research told me that Burnley's first season of producing was actually 1912/13.At that time they were a second division club(won promotion that year) so the mystery of the first Burnley programme was solved.Don't look for anything pre 1912
Also interestingly the programmes were numbered from 37 to 71(1913/14) and 72 onwards(1914/15).
There were some games missing and Burnley's historian has confirmed that they did not produce a programme for a midweek game unless Xmas or Easter.
As such when Burnley played Manchester City midweek in 1913/14 there was no programme printed.
If you are a Manchester City collector you can now note that Burnley v Manchester City 1914/15 is the first produced programme for this fixture.
So when did your club first produce?
Do you count Sport and Play for the Midlands club as a programme or do you consider it a magazine.
Manchester United used to share a programme with local football and rugby clubs.I don't have any but they can be seen in the national library.
Of course i would like one/some but are they programmes.
A personal question please.Can anybody tell me when Hull first produced.I have a card for Hull v Manchester United in 1905/06.This was Hull's first season in the league i believe but can anybody confirm was there anything before.
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bisphamseasider



Joined: 02 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:24 pm 
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I don't think there is anything about Hull (just had a quick skim through) but this previous thread has some useful info about early issues.

http://www.footballprogrammece.....mp;start=0
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bisphamseasider



Joined: 02 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:49 pm 
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There is another previous thread from 2010.

http://www.footballprogrammece.....p;start=20

which confirms Burnley first issuing in 1912/3 but also includes additional interesting information.

Burnley's 1st official issue was for the opening game of the 1912/13 season against Glossop North End. This programme takes pride of place in my collection. However, an issue is known to exist for the home Reserve team game against Man City in 1909/10. This was not issued by Burnley FC though, and is perhaps one of the earliest known examples of a Pirate?
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wandererpaul



Joined: 05 Feb 2013
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Location: Brentford

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:56 pm 
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bisphamseasider wrote:
I don't think there is anything about Hull (just had a quick skim through) but this previous thread has some useful info about early issues.

http://www.footballprogrammece.....mp;start=0


Wow, some nice old issues in that thread!

Brentford's earliest known home programme, to my knowledge, is v Bristol Rovers in August 1904. I know early issues were available as a founder and later director of the club said he used to sell them at Brentford's previous grounds to griffin park. Never ever seen one though. Smile

The oldest Brentford away I've seen is 1905/1906 versus Liverpool in the FA cup. Any older out there?! Smile
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Pete’s Picture Palace
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:28 pm 
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I must have missed that earlier thread.

I have never seen this programme in the flesh but it's shown in one of the Rev Nigel Sands many books - Palace v Southampton Reserves, 2nd September 1905, the opening day of Palace's first season in the Southern League, Division 2.



This one I have a photocopy of as a mate somehow came across it in a house clearance about 10 years ago, so I have been lucky enough to handle it. Palace v Southampton, 26th January 1907, Southern League, Division 1.

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tbfacsm



Joined: 13 Dec 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 5:59 pm 
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Pete’s Picture Palace wrote:
I must have missed that earlier thread.

I have never seen this programme in the flesh but it's shown in one of the Rev Nigel Sands many books - Palace v Southampton Reserves, 2nd September 1905, the opening day of Palace's first season in the Southern League, Division 2.



This one I have a photocopy of as a mate somehow came across it in a house clearance about 10 years ago, so I have been lucky enough to handle it. Palace v Southampton, 26th January 1907, Southern League, Division 1.



You just gotta love The glaziers" notes
Talk about playing at Newcastle in the cup in 1907.
"Their behaviour as sportsmen and gentlemen was a lesson to the two or three of our followers who attended"
That's a ballbreaker of a journey now so what was it like from Palace to Newcastle in 1907 for an hour and a halfs worth of football?
So come on train enthuisiasts
Did a train run from London to Newcastle in 1907 and how long would it have taken the hardy two or three.
I find it fascinating
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tbfacsm



Joined: 13 Dec 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:10 pm 
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i have a Bradford City programme from 1910/11 which is volume 3.
The club was formed,i believe in 1903/04
They won promotion to division 1 by winning division 2 in season 1907/08
As such the season 1908/09 would make sense as being volume 1 and therefore 1910/11 as volume 3 ties in.
However it was not unusual to have a (new) volume when something important happened,such as promotion.
So was 1909/10 the first time that Bradford City published or was their something for Division 2.
Are there any Bradford City collectors or historians on here?
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Pete’s Picture Palace
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:25 pm 
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This was hand-made by a "Novocastrian" in 1907 - Palace beat them 1-0.




And this is a flyer from a Palace programme at Xmas 1946. You'll work out that the journey for the 3rd round Cup tie in Jan 1947 would last about 30 hours, although there were about 8 hours spare in Newcastle before the game kicked off. Price was 50 shillings - an enormous sum to pay 2 years after the war with rationing still about. Average pay was about £5 a week.

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Dorking



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:12 pm 
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They needed 8 people to book...wonder if they got that number?
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pastpirate
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:38 pm 
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wandererpaul wrote:
bisphamseasider wrote:
I don't think there is anything about Hull (just had a quick skim through) but this previous thread has some useful info about early issues.

http://www.footballprogrammece.....mp;start=0


Wow, some nice old issues in that thread!

Brentford's earliest known home programme, to my knowledge, is v Bristol Rovers in August 1904. I know early issues were available as a founder and later director of the club said he used to sell them at Brentford's previous grounds to griffin park. Never ever seen one though. Smile

The oldest Brentford away I've seen is 1905/1906 versus Liverpool in the FA cup. Any older out there?! Smile


There is a pic of that Brentford one here WP. http://bristolroversmemorabilia.weebly.com/1904-1905-141.html

Cheers, Jamie.
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www.bristolroversmemorabilia.weebly.com The definitive list of Bristol Rovers programmes
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wandererpaul



Joined: 05 Feb 2013
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Location: Brentford

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:00 pm 
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pastpirate wrote:
wandererpaul wrote:
bisphamseasider wrote:
I don't think there is anything about Hull (just had a quick skim through) but this previous thread has some useful info about early issues.

http://www.footballprogrammece.....mp;start=0


Wow, some nice old issues in that thread!

Brentford's earliest known home programme, to my knowledge, is v Bristol Rovers in August 1904. I know early issues were available as a founder and later director of the club said he used to sell them at Brentford's previous grounds to griffin park. Never ever seen one though. Smile

The oldest Brentford away I've seen is 1905/1906 versus Liverpool in the FA cup. Any older out there?! Smile


There is a pic of that Brentford one here WP. http://bristolroversmemorabilia.weebly.com/1904-1905-141.html

Cheers, Jamie.


I posted that image here I think. Wink

http://www.footballprogrammece.....p;start=20

It's not mine, sadly, but I was close to it once upon a time. I hate raffles! Smile
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Mtbhull



Joined: 11 Dec 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:35 pm 
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A personal question please.Can anybody tell me when Hull first produced.I have a card for Hull v Manchester United in 1905/06.This was Hull's first season in the league i believe but can anybody confirm was there anything before.


Hull City had a programme for their first match in the League against Barnsley 02/09/1905. It was issued through Ernest Morrison's advertising agency.

This programme included results of the previous season's friendlies as well as a fixture list, the team line ups and plenty of adverts.

There is a picture available of it in the excellent book "Now Tigers" by Nicholas Turner.

I hope this helps answer the question, though this was the first season in the league and first set of programmes, Manchester United were certainly not the first programme!

Martin
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pafcprogs



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:59 pm 
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he earliest Argyle home I know of is 1902 for a friendly versus Nottingham Forest which went via Sportingold a few tears back.

I have the home v Swindon from 1911/12 which was the first issue of the Green format that became our staple release until the war...there is another from that season ( Southampton I think) which went at the same auction. Both were found stuck in a scrapbook consigned for auction.

I do have three posters for motor cycling racing from the early 1900's which took place at Home Park pre football becoming its raison d'etre picked up for a pittance on ebay ( a tenner I think!)
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Most Plymouth post 1959 but plenty of others including reserves, friendlies, Cup Finals Internationals and Club issues, handbooks and other sports.
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tackler7



Joined: 26 May 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:38 pm 
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The excellent A history of Bradford City AFC in objects by JOhn Dewhirst states that a team sheet was produced for the first game against Gainsborough Trinity on 5/9/1903 albeit by the local paper.

1909/10 seems to be the start of a regular programme produced by the club.
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