Champions League? Crusaders boss not really bothered....

[seand]

Irish League (ie Northern Ireland) champions Crusaders are in Champions League first qualifying round action this week against Estonian opposition. Apart from the great glorious wonder and honour of playing European football there's the small matter of about 300K on the line for winning the tie. Cursaders manager Stephen Baxter though is away on his holiers.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.....39144.html

[Sir Moses Hill]

Sean, it's difficult to know where to begin on this topic. It's one that I've been ranting about for more years than I care to remember. There's an ingrained culture of amateurism in the Irish League. This can often be ignored during intra-league competitions because we're all the same, but our parochial attitudes are well exposed anytime our clubs face opposition from outside our own six small counties.

The Glens are missing two almost-certain starters tomorrow night due to holidays. Two other almost-certain starters have just returned from holiday, and so missed our last two warm-up games and are therefore unlikely to start. Several other players have been unavailable for training or friendlies over the last few weeks due to work commitments or holidays. Apparently our manager would've missed the first leg had it been away from home due to a family wedding.

This is not the first time that Stephen Baxter has missed Crusaders games in Europe. It seems he takes his family holidays the first week in July each year. This was also the same with Glenn Ferguson while playing at Linfield. He may have been one of the greatest strikers in the history of Irish domestic football, but he swapped a lot of European appearances for several fortnights on the beach. Now he's manager at Ballymena United and should they or any of his future clubs ever qualify for Europe he has lost all moral authority in ensuring a good turnout from his players.

The nub of the issue is a distinct lack of ambition for any sort of advancement or competitiveness relevant to other countries. Of course, this is not how it's expressed by the apologists, of whom there are many. Instead, excuses are trotted out annually. These centre on all IL clubs being part-time and therefore unable to deny players family time during late June/early July. Granted, the Twelfth fortnight is still prime holiday season in NI, and even the IL is now an 11-month season for those clubs that qualify for Europe; yet there's clearly not enough expectation on players that if you're playing at a level sufficient to be qualifying for European competition, then sacrifices need to be made in life and this may mean fewer foreign holidays than your non-footballer mates during your short career. There's also a persecution culture given the games come a full month before the commencement of our domestic league, without it quite dawning on anyone in power that we determine our own footballing calendar and so can move it to fit in with the demands of modern European competition.

This entire attitude stinks and causes me to question my devotion to my club and its league on an annual basis. I know where we stand in the global order of things, but I find a lack of effort inexcusable.

Part of the problem is that the IFA cares little about domestic football, especially these days when the national team is going well (something I'm sure you can sympathise with) and so is not there to incentivise clubs' preparations for Europe. Equally, there hasn't been a single club over the last 20 years that has set a new standard in Europe for others to follow. Linfield should be condemned in this regard. For a club rolling in cash and generally dominant, their ambitions are appalling, and they have no interest beyond the boundaries of NI (c.f. even their attitude towards the Setanta Cup, never mind Europe). Sadly even our nearest neighbours are ignored as a benchmark, partly because of a typical NI reluctance to take lessons from the ROI and partly because there's a belief that chairmen in the south have gambled their clubs futures on unrealistic dreams, for example Shelbourne, Derry City and Cork City. A decade ago, Shelbourne pasted us home and away in the Champions League and yet our support base still manages to shrug off the result on the basis of Shelbourne's subsequent demise.

Please forgive my passion on this. I absolutely adore the Glens playing in Europe. I kind of consider our domestic campaign as being 9-month European qualifier. My goals stretch beyond being slightly better than Ards, Glenavon or Warrenpoint Town and so it kills me annually when I realise those goals are not shared by the club.

IL clubs have had a few decent results in Europe in recent seasons. This, however, is more down to a dilution in quality in the early rounds (or rather an increased number of qualifying rounds) rather than an improvement in the quality of the IL or our preparation for the games. Unfortunately, these few successes have served to paper over the cracks. The same may happen this season. Linfield should progress a round, and after last night's result Crusaders may do likewise.

[Dorking]

Brilliant post SMH

I suspect there are a number of supporters, who it could be said are more committed than the players or management when it comes to how much they value the honour of playing a European game.

You could bet that if there was a game against a big English club (eg Liverpool had to start in the preliminary round the year after they won it a decade ago) then all holidays or attendance at weddings would have been cancelled.

I know it's not Northern Ireland, but Shamrock Rovers showed what could be possible when they made it into the same Europa Group stage as Tottenham and were pretty respectable.

A real shame that clubs like Crues cannot show the desire to seize the opportunity

[Sir Moses Hill]

It's bizarre because the Crues are actually one of the more forward thinking clubs in the league. They won the title last season (their first in nearly two decades) entirely on merit and are justifiably favourites to retain it in 15-16. Not bad for the smallest of the four Belfast clubs.

And yet, as with all IL clubs, the "football men" still dominate and, on occasions like this, can get away with a lot. If Baxter says he's going away on holiday and missing the first Euro game, then no-one in the club is going to argue with him. Afterall, didn't he win us the league last season? What more do you want?

On your wider point, Dorking, the thought occurred to me recently how tough it is being a full-time supporter of a part-time club. My dedication - and that of hundreds/thousands others - is no different to the dedication of a Manchester United, Arsenal or Celtic fan. And yet, by definition, the club doesn't give the same sweat in return. This is very much brought to the fore each year when our clubs take the European stage and their amateurism exposed.

Anyway, I haven't given up hope for our home tie against MSK Zilina of Slovakia tomorrow night. The Slovaks will have been enjoying the cultural highlights of the Mini Twelfth in Belfast tonight so are probably feeling a bit uncomfortable right now. And there's always the hope of food poisoning, or their Glenn McGrath twisting his ankle during the warm up, or something.

[Tynie Topics]

Interesting reading SMH, how do you view the Republic’s move to a summer season and is this something that should be looked at for the North to aid clubs in European competition?

On the other hand, is it worth the bother given the likelihood that progress never usually lasts beyond a couple of rounds now that Euro comps are now so heavily weighted towards getting the big clubs into the group stages of both? Sadly, I don’t see Shamrock’s exploits of a few seasons being repeated anytime soon, and for Scottish clubs (outwith Celtic) the group stages are now almost a step too far.

A couple of seasons back I think Motherwell almost lost out financially overall, with the prize money barely enough to cover flights to Rubin Krasnodar.
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[Sir Moses Hill]

Summer football has been instrumental in allowing ROI clubs to play in June/July European games fully fit and prepared. I'm sure Gary or Sean can offer first hand reflections. The idea has been discussed to death in NI, however more in the context of whether summer football would improve crowds. In that regard, the belief of the authorities is that it would be a wash - what you'd gain in those wanting to watch football in better weather you'd lose in holiday makers, loyal order marchers, cricketers, etc. The idea was seriously considered as recently as 12 months ago but has since been put to bed for at least a few more years. We don't do radical change in NI; we prefer the model of long, slow decline.

As for whether any such changes would be worth it in a European context, given that the best we can hope for is second or third qualifying round...I think the day you stop fighting is the day you should jack it in. Maybe we need to move from a norm of first round elimination to a norm of second round elimination and then target progress, perhaps taking a decade, of a norm of third round elimination. Clubs from the Nordic countries over the last two or three decades provide the perfect model for this progression. Furthermore, UEFA's co-efficient and seeding system means that progress is rewarded with seeding, which makes further progress more likely. At present, we're generally stuck in the cycle of entering the first round unseeded and so always facing sides better than us. Of the four Northern Irish clubs in Europe this week, only Linfield were seeded in the draw.

One element that could be a game changer in this discussion is the recent uptick in European prize money. I think if Crusaders managed to beat their Estonian opponents and get knocked out in the Champions League second qualifying round they'll pocket E450,000, which is more than their annual turnover, even after their European expenses. Assuming the Glens lose to MSK Zilnia, we'll still earn E150,000. It would take us three domestic championships to earn us this same sum in prize money. This kind of cash, and what it could do for the game in NI, will surely make the powers that be sit up and notice. Just not this season.

[garyspain]

There are different viewpoints here on summer football but I'm a big fan.

It certainly helps our clubs in Europe although mine (Limerick) haven't been in Europe since 1982.

The rewards in Europe are huge so I'm surprised at the attitude of some Irish League clubs. I went up to Crusaders v Levadia on Tuesday. Enjoyable night and decent enough game for a 0-0. Crusaders still have a great chance and with an Albanian club waiting in the next round there is the potential for 6 more European ties. I just wonder if summer football and your manager being there could be the fine margins between an early exit and a 2 month European odyssey.

[Tynie Topics]

Sadly that’s Glentoran’s European adventure over for another year, am I right in saying that Zilina have recent experience of Champions League group stage football? Linfield are in a good position to progress but Glenavon need to pull out a big result in the away leg.
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[Sir Moses Hill]

Yes, sadly no surprises. With the Glens 0-2 down after 20 minutes I feared the worst, but a combination of us playing our way into the game and Zilina slipping into third gear kept the remaining 70 minutes respectable. Two of their goals took big deflections and we missed several chances, although I don't think anyone is trying to claim the result was unfair.

Dreadful defensive errors cost Glenavon two goals and effectively ends their contest. Linfield did what was expected against very weak opponents, albeit it took until the second half.

Short highlights from all three NI clubs in Europe are on the BBC NI Sport website.