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John Alder Football Memorabilia Auction
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John Alder Football Memorabilia Auction
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cook



Joined: 30 May 2011
Posts: 184

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:44 pm 
Post subject: John Alder Football Memorabilia Auction
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Most will be aware of the tragic plane crash involving a couple of Newcastle fans.

One of them, John Alder, his family are auctioning his collection in aid of the Sir Bobby Robson Foundation via Anderson and Garland.

224 lots, bound to be some items of interest for people on this forum.

http://sirbobbyrobsonfoundatio.....charity-2/#

Auction is this weekend 22nd February at Newcastle's St James' Park.
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bisphamseasider



Joined: 02 Jun 2009
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Location: Blackpool

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:05 pm 
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There are some very nice programmes on auction.

I expect prices for some of the lots will be much higher than the estimates.

There was another thread about this started earlier today.

http://www.footballprogrammecentre.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=107678#107678
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overlap



Joined: 10 Sep 2010
Posts: 426

PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:47 pm 
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the auction today of the John Alder Newcastle United programme and memorabilia collection raised £26k for the Sir Bobby Robson cancer unit, a great result and well above he £20k envisaged.....
See here.....
http://www.nufc.com/
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auctioneer



Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:07 pm 
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yes, it raised more than the estimates, but were they correct?

surely the collection would have fetched a lot more in a specialist auction house?
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mustard68



Joined: 24 Aug 2012
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:16 pm 
Post subject: JOHN ALDER
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I was there and I don`t think they would have done better at a specialist auction house.
They spent time over the bids [4 hours for 224 lots] and believe me it was excruciating holding a lead whilst the auctioneer begged people in the room and on the net to increase their bids!
It worked for them though.
To my mind the 2 big finals 1924 & 1932 and the PESCI went for top dollar bearing in mind condition etc and they sold a number of 80s & 90s seasons in the £200 bracket which many people on here [no names] think are worth feck all.
all in all a grand old fashioned afternoon - a worthy memorial for John and a very good cause.
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Karb



Joined: 21 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:09 pm 
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I have to agree with mustard68. The really rare items went for top whack anyway, and there was plenty of interest in items that otherwise were practically worthless. £200 for the poor fella's scarf, and £240 for an otherwise run of the mill friendly programme, because it was the last game John attended.

I don't normally have any time for mags, but some things stretch beyond tribal rivalries. At least some good has come from the murder of these innocent people
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TheMusic



Joined: 13 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:53 am 
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According to recent auction prices it could be argued the truth lies somewhere in between. For example, 210 for the 1952 Charity Shield in decent nick is a new low in my memory, whereas 1800 for the Pecsi Dozsa away is a huge amount compared to the price garnered at a recent established sports auction house (unsold at 650).

In terms of money paid, the charity aspect arguably offset the lack of a wider programme-collecting audience which would have been aware of the sale at a major auction house, but anyway, many of the lots went at just about recent market value despite all the proceeds going to a good cause.

Surely these results were just more ammunition for the argument that nowadays, in order to maintain market prices for any item, the size of the audience is irrelevant but that the reaching the right target group (e.g. local, previously non-collecting fans for modern stuff; collectors with some level of disposal income in a discreet manner, i.e. auction houses, for 'rarer' items) is everything, no?
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treble99



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:03 am 
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TheMusic wrote:
According to recent auction prices it could be argued the truth lies somewhere in between. For example, 210 for the 1952 Charity Shield in decent nick is a new low in my memory, whereas 1800 for the Pecsi Dozsa away is a huge amount compared to the price garnered at a recent established sports auction house (unsold at 650).

In terms of money paid, the charity aspect arguably offset the lack of a wider programme-collecting audience which would have been aware of the sale at a major auction house, but anyway, many of the lots went at just about recent market value despite all the proceeds going to a good cause.

Surely these results were just more ammunition for the argument that nowadays, in order to maintain market prices for any item, the size of the audience is irrelevant but that the reaching the right target group (e.g. local, previously non-collecting fans for modern stuff; collectors with some level of disposal income in a discreet manner, i.e. auction houses, for 'rarer' items) is everything, no?


a very interesting question

some auction houses are of the belief that crowd in the room is everything whilst others are of the opinion that they are not
Something to ponder

On a different note tis was as much a charity fundraiser as it was an auction
The cause was both worthy and sombre and if they thought they could raise £20k and actually got £25K i believe it is unfair to pick through it item by item
The ends justified the means in my book
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TheMusic



Joined: 13 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:17 am 
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I don't think anyone is denying it was a worthy cause and a great gesture by the family and everyone involved. I'm not sure what fairness has to do with noting current market prices for football memorabilia though. I don't see the issue with people speculating on reasons for any results achieved through any sales medium. Fairness is irrelevant, even unapplicable here, I would venture.
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treble99



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:55 am 
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TheMusic wrote:
I don't think anyone is denying it was a worthy cause and a great gesture by the family and everyone involved. I'm not sure what fairness has to do with noting current market prices for football memorabilia though. I don't see the issue with people speculating on reasons for any results achieved through any sales medium. Fairness is irrelevant, even unapplicable here, I would venture.


Totally agree

This is a site that has f**k all to do with fairness and i am not surprised it can be declared on here,as unapplicable

Have you never been to a charity dinner for some very poorly person where they auction a pice of shit print with an auto pen autographed for a grand
Nobody picks through that do they
People on here are picking at a grewat piece of charity
Leave it at that
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Wullie



Joined: 10 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:57 am 
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I was speaking to a collector some time back who said he never bid at charity auctions as of course people over bid for items. That's the whole point of such auction. To raise money for a cause. I agree 100 percent with TheMusic. Very well said.
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treble99



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:12 pm 
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Wullie wrote:
I was speaking to a collector some time back who said he never bid at charity auctions as of course people over bid for items. That's the whole point of such auction. To raise money for a cause. I agree 100 percent with TheMusic. Very well said.


that's exactly what i said

i only complained that people chose to start picking through some items and passing comment on a charity auction
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TheMusic



Joined: 13 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:49 pm 
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That's the point though; your complaint (I'm not sure it warrants complaint but that's your right and personally I've no issue with a simple difference of opinion) is perfectly valid for items that we can all see have been (thankfully) inflated by the charity aspect of this auction, e.g. the scarf, the last lot, arguably the Pecsi Dozsa programme... etc.

However, in my humble opinion, I'd say this auction was focused upon more by collectors than philanthropists and therefore far more similar to the likes of Sportingold, FSA, SM Worldwide...etc than to a normal charity dinner where people genuinely come with the open-mindedness/intention of splashing the cash for a cause with often little regard to the lot on which they're bidding.

Therefore, perhaps it's not unrealistic nor unfair of us to:

a) wonder about what the prices mean in regard to items such as the 1952 Charity Shield (surely we're not suggesting the charity aspect raised the price here and that truly it's worth far less than the 210/230 it accrued?)

or b) at least debate a little whether the total would have been higher in another similar but more well-known (at least, in the football memorabilia world) auction house (this was the original question, as I remember).
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treble99



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:07 pm 
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Current price of a 1952 Charity Shield(i ain't seen the condition) is £400/500 for a good copy

QED
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overlap



Joined: 10 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:37 pm 
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Hi TheMusic, interesting comments and observations re the John Alder auction, and about conditions and prices of the 1952 Charity Shield.

The one on sale on Sunday at SJP was: "ink amendments and score to team sheet." It went for £230. One in similar condition went unsold on ebay recently for £260, so I would hazard it reached its ballpark price.
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treble99



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:54 pm 
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i stopped monitoring this one vut

ebay Oct 2011 £535
ebay April 2011 £585

Mullocks Sept 2010 £450 plus commission £535

Ebay June 2010 £675
Ebay Jan 2010 £645

Sportingold September 2009 £650 plus commission £750
Ebay Nov 2008 £602(lots of interest at north of £500)
Ebay Sept 2008£620

and now it is worth just over £200!!!

Really???
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PompeyPhil



Joined: 24 May 2014
Posts: 327

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:10 pm 
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http://www.mullocksauctions.co.....nited.html

2010 Mullocks Estimate 150-200 Did Not Sell......looks like the Ebay buyers paid a little over the odds!! Nod
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BAZZABAGGIES



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 1920

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:19 pm 
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That didnt sell because it was a REPRINT.

I sold one last year on Ebay £375
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Wullie



Joined: 10 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:28 pm 
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BAZZABAGGIES wrote:
That didnt sell because it was a REPRINT.

I sold one last year on Ebay £375

That's odd. looking at the photo, especially the top right hand part of the programme , I was thinking it looks like a modern reprint. But then I thought it can't be as these are a top auction house...
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PompeyPhil



Joined: 24 May 2014
Posts: 327

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 9:07 pm 
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Blimey and I thought Auction Houses were the "experts"....... Confused
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