IS GRAHAM BUDD AUCTIONS BANNED??????? |
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goonerboy
Joined: 24 Aug 2009 Posts: 1047
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:17 pm
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treble99 wrote: |
This is a forum full of members who are skint and many are proud of that. |
I don't know everyone elses financial state but i suspect there is a mix of people. Of course even those who do have significant finances may decide not to spend large sums on programmes.....that is their right and choice just like it is for you to spend whatever you want. I think the problem here is that pretty much every post you get involved in includes some comment trying to flaunt your wealth (whether real or talked up I can't verify) and some attempt to belittle others who decide not to spend as much on programmes. The reality is nobody gives a f*ck how much money you have and that is fact. This isn't some teenage playground where your over inflated claims of bravado or wealth etc buy you credibility. Au contraire rodney. I don't think people feel proud of being skint but also they don't feel inferior to you because of it because money is not the real measure of decent human being and why should those who don't have as much to spend (choice or necessity) have to be subject to your attempts to belittle them ? |
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Jim LFC
Joined: 05 Oct 2014 Posts: 590
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treble99
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 1000 Location: manchester
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:13 am
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goonerboy wrote: |
treble99 wrote: |
This is a forum full of members who are skint and many are proud of that. |
I don't know everyone elses financial state but i suspect there is a mix of people. Of course even those who do have significant finances may decide not to spend large sums on programmes.....that is their right and choice just like it is for you to spend whatever you want. I think the problem here is that pretty much every post you get involved in includes some comment trying to flaunt your wealth (whether real or talked up I can't verify) and some attempt to belittle others who decide not to spend as much on programmes. The reality is nobody gives a f*ck how much money you have and that is fact. This isn't some teenage playground where your over inflated claims of bravado or wealth etc buy you credibility. Au contraire rodney. I don't think people feel proud of being skint but also they don't feel inferior to you because of it because money is not the real measure of decent human being and why should those who don't have as much to spend (choice or necessity) have to be subject to your attempts to belittle them ? |
My postings have nothing to do with my wealth,or lack of it.
I actually buy very little at auctions as i have long since adopted a policy of putting,what i can consider "my price" on it and stopping on or about that point.
"My price" is calculated using my extensive notes on last traded price coupled with my desire as to how important it is to my collection.
Add in the balance of when it last came up and how often it comes up and when i might see it again tells me where i believe i should be in my bidding
I actually buy a relatively small percentage on what is on offer at auctions
What pisses me off on this forum is the number of skint members implying or declaring that anybody who pays significantly more than they can afford on anything must be a mug or a snob or a selfish bastard
In actual fact these big spenders are the ones that keep the hobby going
In another thread it was mentioned that one of regular hard working genuine dealers(not a two bob fish and chip man) managed to attract only about 50 people to an organised programme fair
The only hope he would have in covering his costs on a regular basis is if occasionally somebody walked in with the old fashioned carrier bag with a gem in it
He would then possibly put it up for auction and make a lot of money
So goonerboy,i suggest you get off your high horse and go and moan about the ticket prices at the Emirates
You must have a thick wad if you can afford to pay ticket prices that average north of £100 for a normal mid table league clash.That's 2 pre war Arsenal homes if you are mug enough and rich enough to pay that much |
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Tynie Topics
Joined: 26 Nov 2009 Posts: 3508
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goonerboy
Joined: 24 Aug 2009 Posts: 1047
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:26 pm
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you can't help yourself can you. How do you know who is skint and who is not ? and why does you use it as such a derogatory term ? Collectors are not here to fill the pockets of dealers. Just remember this a hobby to the large majority of people and they might have other priorities for their money. |
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treble99
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 1000 Location: manchester
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:36 pm
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talk about not being able to help yourself.
Pot,kettle,black
It's you who decided that money must be important to me and started on about it.
Of course collectors are not just around to fill dealers pockets but there appears to be a grey area about who is a collecting collector,who is a non collecting collectors(they are the ones with big opinions on who is paying too much btw) and hard working dealers
Everybody should be left to get on collecting in their own way at their own level without getting a bollocking off some two bob tosser without the bus fare to get to the auction telling somebody who has just spent a lot that he must be a mug |
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BAZZABAGGIES
Joined: 07 Jan 2011 Posts: 1920
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:38 pm
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Tynie Topics wrote: |
treble99 wrote: |
In actual fact these big spenders are the ones that keep the hobby going. |
How does that work exactly? |
Easy I buy Pre War Manchester United programmes for £5 each and flog them on for £500 each.. This enables dealers like me not to give up the hobby trying to make a living flogging 50p programmes. |
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treble99
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 1000 Location: manchester
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:42 pm
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Tynie Topics wrote: |
treble99 wrote: |
In actual fact these big spenders are the ones that keep the hobby going. |
How does that work exactly? |
well whilst there are big spenders about there are dealers(and/or bedroom bandits) trying to find the items to sell to them
the adverts,the interest that those people trying to find the items generate keep the hobby in the public attention
Every now and again a victorian cup final or the likes sufaces and gets a massive price which generates massive interest which gets people looking in attics etc
They don't usually find the holy grail but there are regular instances of finding something that ends up in an auction or two as "a box of" which helps fill the collections of people that dabble in Scottish clubs and Gibraltar and similar.
I hope that explanation helps but i suspect it won't |
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Tynie Topics
Joined: 26 Nov 2009 Posts: 3508
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:48 pm
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treble99 wrote: |
well whilst there are big spenders about there are dealers(and/or bedroom bandits) trying to find the items to sell to them
the adverts,the interest that those people trying to find the items generate keep the hobby in the public attention
Every now and again a victorian cup final or the likes sufaces and gets a massive price which generates massive interest which gets people looking in attics etc
They don't usually find the holy grail but there are regular instances of finding something that ends up in an auction or two as "a box of" which helps fill the collections of people that dabble in Scottish clubs and Gibraltar and similar.
I hope that explanation helps but i suspect it won't |
That's fair enough, but I don't think the hobby would spiral into utter decline and devastation without these big spenders and big ticket items. Some say its already well on its way to that anyway.
I think it's fair to say that eBay has got people looking into attics more these days rather than a (very) occasional media fuss over some 5 figure auction price. If eBay disappeared, that would have a bigger impact than anything else.
All the auctions houses could pull out of football dealing tomorrow, and I doubt it would have much of an impact on the "day-to-day" hobby. _________________ https://www.flickr.com/photos/footballprogrammes/albums |
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treble99
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 1000 Location: manchester
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:35 pm
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I think it's already gone a long way to spiralling into obscurity
The small programmes fairs are totally screwed
Even the 50p buyers mostly don't go as they see the quid to get in as a massive insult
It's not ebay that sells the big ticket items either
It's purely and simply the auctions
The publicity from the auctions is what gets people into the attics
Ebay is just the vehicle to sell through when you don't have any other outlet
How many dealers sell anything on ebay
All i see is £50 programmes on a buy it now for £200 |
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pafcprogs
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 992 Location: Westerham Kent
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:00 pm
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EBay has its place...I just picked up a 1910 West Ham Plymouth on there, and as a seller every now and again you get a result...one of the tickets I put up there went for just under £60....that said I was pissed off when my snipe didn't place and a Stoke LC single sheet went for just over £20....can't win then all though...much like supporting Argyle!
So you take your little victories and move on....much like supporting Argyle!
_________________ Currently disposing of my collection so please email any wants lists to [email protected].
Most Plymouth post 1959 but plenty of others including reserves, friendlies, Cup Finals Internationals and Club issues, handbooks and other sports. |
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Tynie Topics
Joined: 26 Nov 2009 Posts: 3508
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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:05 pm
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I doubt auctions get vast numbers of people into the lofts and attics of the world. A £150k World Cup winners medal does not get people scurrying up the ladder to find one under the cold water tank, for the simple fact that these big ticket items rarely come up and make the mainstream media. It will have some influence, but not anywhere near as much as eBay.
Ebay has given a value to everything, people sell all sorts of crap on there so now, when people move house or just simply have a clean out, what may perhaps have gone into the skip now goes on ebay and programmes are no different. We’ve all heard stories in the old days of programmes being chucked out as the owner didn’t know their value, or what to do with them. It still happens of course, and it still happens that auction houses snaffle some of these, but I’m prepared to bet the vast majority of non “big ticket” items get listed on ebay. That in turn has had a big impact on values for anything other than ultra rarities, there is more out there.
I recall an example of a couple of years back when a near complete Hearts collection from 1946-1952 started to appear on ebay, turns out the ladies grandfather had died and they found them when clearing out the house. She had used ebay before so started listing them and it looks like she made a pretty penny. Would she have approached an auction house with them if ebay didn’t exist? Chances are they would be in a skip. Just one example of course but I’m sure it’s replicated up and down the country.
The big ticket items will probably always find a way to an auction house instead of eBay, but what would have the biggest negative impact to the hobby if you had to do without one or the other? eBay without a shadow of a doubt. The hobby will trundle along as in reality, 95% of collectors do not or cannot bid at Budds so if they withdrew (like Christies) from the football market, it would have little or no impact to the backbone of the hobby, just like the pre-1990 era when auction houses weren’t interested.
However thankfully both can co-exist and serve all levels of financial clout in the hobby.
As for Fairs, eBay has pretty much side lined all but the biggest and well organised ones. Not enough imagination goes into them to make them work these days. _________________ https://www.flickr.com/photos/footballprogrammes/albums |
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manchesterunitedman1
Joined: 17 Jan 2010 Posts: 3330 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:51 pm
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are we all done now!
[I even got castigated for having the audacity to even mention it in the first place]
I can't wait till Graham Budd's next catalogue is out in May!
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BAZZABAGGIES
Joined: 07 Jan 2011 Posts: 1920
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treble99
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 1000 Location: manchester
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Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:20 pm
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BAZZABAGGIES wrote: |
Someone said he made so much money out of his commission (both ways) he can now retire. |
His commission was made on sales of north of £1.2m!!!
I think ebay is a better vehicle though for members of ths forum
Off you go lads |
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manchesterunitedman1
Joined: 17 Jan 2010 Posts: 3330 Location: United Kingdom
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treble99
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 1000 Location: manchester
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Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:41 pm
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What's his commission on 50p and does he charge commission on postage? |
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manchesterunitedman1
Joined: 17 Jan 2010 Posts: 3330 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:59 pm
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BAZZABAGGIES wrote: |
Someone said he made so much money out of his commission (both ways) he can now retire. |
IS THAT THE SOMEONE WHO TELLS EVERYONE THIS ITEM IS WORTH THIS OR THAT IN THE PUB BUT REALLY HAS NO CLUE OR A POT T PEE IN, IS THAT THE SAME PERSON THEN?.
I hope he did well, after paying Sotheby's their enourmous cut, and all his staff and don't forget it takes several months to put it all together and his costs for the professional photography alone could be £15-20k with studio time maybe double and the catalogue has to be proofed by experts, not a mate and experts cost real brass, and it is not a photcopied rag either and that aint goon b cheap for sure.
He runs a business that opens it's doors two times out of 365 days a year and add to that travelling the country and expenditure certainly mounts up-HE HAS to take a small fortune, or it is all down the pan.
Still he is the rich collectors friend for sure, Priory Collection and others will have camped out and decided how much they are going to spend on the day as well as other individuals who are also investing in football and sporting memorabilia at the very very top end, no doubt there will be many articles leaving these shores via intermediaries and agents so they can hang something up on their yachts as they cruise past Wigan Pier whilst that auld racist fart whelan and his new pet monkey can just watch from the jetty..... 200 million is whelan net worth they say, about what some of the top top rich people can throw at their pleasure perhaps on an annual basis and with all that Black stuff coming out of the ground it fills up the pockets before the items even arrive!
Oh and Barry don't sound so bitter after all listening to you you have had it all over the years...... |
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BAZZABAGGIES
Joined: 07 Jan 2011 Posts: 1920
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Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:27 pm
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38 FOOTBALL AUCTIONS this year so it looks like the way to sell.
Does anyone want 500,000 Modern programmes that the auction houses do not want. ?
If not I will dump them around Rays House . |
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manchesterunitedman1
Joined: 17 Jan 2010 Posts: 3330 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:38 pm
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BAZZABAGGIES wrote: |
38 FOOTBALL AUCTIONS this year so it looks like the way to sell.
Does anyone want 500,000 Modern programmes that the auction houses do not want. ?
If not I will dump them around Rays House . |
I am now told he has a moat all around it to keep out the two bob fish and chip merchants, the 2 bob tossers, the non collector collectors and the second hand envelope and stamp skimming brigades not to mention the ones who cannot afford the bus fair to go to the auctions who when they do get there spend their time teling everyone after the event that they paid too much, you could leave them by the drawbridge so the hummer can collect them all up
It is a good job Raymond has a sense of humour otherwise he would be around my little terraced gaff giving it large |
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