What has happened to the value of programmes?

[adamukcollector]

I posted this briefly in another thread, but about 5 to 7 years ago when I was buying programmes they seemed much more expensive than today. Eg. 1960s Sunderland homes were often £3-£6 a shot. You can now often pick up a season for £15, £20.

Have all football programmes fallen, or only the ones post 1960? How well has stuff from 1900-1945 held its value? What are people's thoughts on which programmes bought today will hold their value best? Are those from 1970 onwards (except special games, and rarities) more or less valueless? What about other football memoriabilla; handbooks, newspapers, press photos, cigarette cards etc?

I know I'm asking for a lot of information but I've spent hours trying to find out how prices have changed and what's what and have been really struggling. Thanks for your help.

[Wullie]

Prices have crashed and most people will point to eBay as the main reason. Post 1950s are now so cheap and accessible I doubt you would need to pay more than £1 for 99 percent of items. But even older items are cheaper than a few years back. Using my club as a general example as you already mentioned Sunderland. Pre war homes £200/£300 a few years ago , recently a number were selling for £80 to £120 . War time £80 to £100 now about £40. Late 40s , early 50s , £50 now about £20 to £30. Of course you are going to get exemptions , but these are the price drop I have noticed over the last few years. A buying opportunity or a dying hobby ? Who can say ?
If you want to check the prices programmes fetched years ago , then check out the Buy it Now's on eBay. You'll find the same programmes listed month after month ,untouched.
I tend to collect ticket stubs and press photos nowadays rather than programmes. That might seem odd as I was one of those who paid silly money years ago.
I guess value is no great importance if someone gets pleasure out of collecting. it's certainly a good time to get into the hobby.

[paulo]

I think it really is simply supply and demand. When I was a kid I knew loads of collectors, now days I don't think many people are into it.

eBay has allowed me to complete various things I collect and I suspect it the same for others.

[adamukcollector]

paulo wrote:

I think it really is simply supply and demand. When I was a kid I knew loads of collectors, now days I don't think many people are into it. eBay has allowed me to complete various things I collect and I suspect it the same for others.

It's peculiar because as Premier League football (in particular), but football in general, has become more globalised I would have expected to see prices for the items rise. Particularly as in the third world countries develop and incomes rise, I would have thought that now a days you would have many more football fans who would want the memorabilia than in the past. I'm trying to increase my collection and branch out as much as I can at the moment. I hope one day that the stuff I buy won't be worth nothing, but equally I have to say I just love owning and reading all the old stuff- and I'm able to buy about 5 times as much for the same amount as I was before! It must have made life very hard for professional programme sellers I imagine.

[derby1884]

Part of the trouble is that supporters - especially the younger ones - aren't encouraged to take an interest in their chosen club's history.

Many (though, admittedly, not all) clubs are basically marketing machines trying to wring every last penny out of people and the media class any football pre-Sky days as being rather quaint. Football, yes, but ever so backward.

The reason so many run-of-the-mill items go unsold on EBay is not just because the demand isn't there (and it isn't any longer) but also because sellers won't wake up to that fact and lower their prices accordingly.

Add in the cost of postage and the ridiculous size of programmes these days and it's a wonder anyone collects them.

In a glass half empty mood tonight....
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[bigearl79]

How many people really want to keep the modern stuff, based on size? I'd sooner have one old programme then several of this season's issue.

[seand]

Is collecting, in general, becoming less common? Probably but I think there's still a healthy interest there in the history of football in particular.

Disposable income isn't what it was before the global crash either. When people are getting rid of second cars and health insurance bits of old paper seem less important.

[blue50]

I think we might be the last generation of true collectors
It's not only football programmes it's cricket memorabilia vinyl etc
My kids have no interest in collecting although they love football cricket and music CD collections are now a thing of the past even personal photograph albums have been made redundant
I know collectors who are selling up simply as they have nobody to pass their collections on too
I guess also a number that have been inherited are now being sold on through auction houses and eBay
The value of cricket memorabilia has plummeted in the past twenty years
Rare autographs which used to fetch hundreds now only make tens
You can pick up a 1930's Lancashire Year Book on eBay for a tenner(the 2014 edition is £15!) these were impossible to find a few years ago
eBay has also made it easy for these collection to be broken up and sold which has flooded the market and with less people collecting these days seen the value of the items drop

[Tynie Topics]

Here's another view, that these so-called "rare" items were never really rare in the first place, and with the advent of ebay everyone is now aware that programmes could be worth something and are straightforward to sell, and so they list them and we find a true market value.
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[Fishy]

Good comment Tynie...........
The advent of the internet has changed the whole scene I would imagine.
I didn't start collecting until 2003 (apart from a few 60s Millwall issues and the odd Argyle one I'd kept), but the internet has made access far easier: Ebay; The-Saleroom; Dealers lists - all on the internet!
The old way of send for a list, put in an order (and hope it's still in stock) etc etc must have been a pain in the proverbial!

My opinion is that the access is so much easier and that is why prices have dropped - programmes are now 'seen' more often..........

Unfortunately (for me) the prices of Pre-War Millwall issues has not, on the whole, gone down.

happy hunting

[bisphamseasider]

Unfortunately I am still paying nearly as much for programmes in 2014 as I was many years ago.

In those days I was paying premium prices to complete my post war set.

Nowadays I am paying premium prices for reserve issues as there are a lot of collectors like me who have progressed to reserves and youth.

Most pre war Blackpool homes are still as dear as ever.

I think the only category where I am paying less is for certain war time issues.

[Tynie Topics]

The ebay era has for many people removed dealers from the equation, the non-collector owner (who pre-ebay may not have known how to sell his programmes) sells direct to collectors, everyone is doing it and therefore we find out that the rare programmes are actually not so rare, just that there is no longer a bottleneck at the point of supply. Previously, 2 or 3 dealers may have had a 1937 Scotland v England, and they list it in their catalogue at £250 each as that is the accepted “going rate”, they don’t actively look for more copies until they sell the one they have, at most they may carry two in their stock if they get the chance.

However now, anyone who owns one and wants to sell, will list it on ebay. It’s a desirable programme and still commands upto £100 in good condition, but it is no longer a rare £250 programme. If you miss out on it once, you know another will be along shortly, and you know if you hold your nerve you might get a bargain. Supply will never exceed demand because, as I said in my previous post, it was never really rare in the first place, it’s just that it is now easier as it will ever been to offer it for sale directly to a large pool of collectors.

There are obviously exceptions to this, there are still genuinely rare programmes out there that command a healthy price, but in my opinion this largely explains the dip in prices and I don’t think it is necessarily down to collectors disappearing.
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[BAZZABAGGIES]

If everyone paid tax on their earnings, us dealers could start make a living again.

[Auchinleckian]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[MINSTERMAN]

Why are prices falling?

Not sure it’s a tax thing, more a supply and demand thing.

The stuff has always been out there, now there is a quick and easy reference point (ebay and internet) for anyone to obtain a rough value on that box of old programmes they come by.

They no longer end in the skip, they now come onto the market.

Whilst there is still value in the good-old fashioned detective work in following leads to track down items, items also now appear more readily. And everyone has a reasonable opportunity to find out about them, without the chasing.

Any really rare stuff still commands top prices, as rarity and bidding opportunity drives the prices up. The dross remains dross, albeit there’s more of it clogging up the system.

It’s a valid point to say that we are probably the last generation of collectors too, maybe that’s got something to do with it. Not only is supply up, demand is down. Youngsters don’t have the collecting clutter, like records, books, programmes etc like the 50s and 60s generation did. They can carry their entire music collection in their pocket, and read last night's programme on their phone for some clubs.

Like Tynie , I now collect tickets. I still buy the modern programmes for my club, but I can understand those who don’t bother. If space is at a premium, the modern stuff soon fills it!

[Wullie]

[Wullie]

Tynie Topics wrote:

Here's another view, that these so-called "rare" items were never really rare in the first place, and with the advent of ebay everyone is now aware that programmes could be worth something and are straightforward to sell, and so they list them and we find a true market value.

This is a very good point indeed. I was always told the 1950 England v Wales programme from Roker Park was almost impossible to obtain. The came along eBay and up it pops quite regularly .

[Rocky]

bisphamseasider wrote:

Nowadays I am paying premium prices for reserve issues as there are a lot of collectors like me who have progressed to reserves and youth

There are still certain fields in our hobby where programmes can raise good prices.

Like Bispham, I’m finding I have to pay premium prices for reserve issues. With Boro they can be particularly pricey as they played a lot of games v non-league clubs, hence much lower print runs especially for the away issues. Other clubs reserve programmes from the same era, especially those who played in the Central League and Football Combination, are cheaper in comparison.

Rare friendlies is another field where plenty of money is needed to fill those gaps in your collection. Here’s a few Boro related items that have sold for good money recently.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1815.....EBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1214.....EBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2715.....EBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1312.....EBIDX%3AIT

[Wullie]

Not forgetting this one Rocky .
1975 Middlesbrough v Sunderland North Midland league Cup final 2nd leg.
A typed team sheet ......£77

[Rocky]

Unsurprisingly I was outbid on that one Wullie. However it shows that something that would appear to be a run of the mill mid 70's s/s reserve issue can sell for more than some pre-war programmes seen recently on Ebay.