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Brocks Manchester City pre war List
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Brocks Manchester City pre war List
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pafcprogs



Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 992
Location: Westerham Kent

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:12 am 
Post subject: Brocks Manchester City pre war List
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Received the list today but it is a PDF so loses formatting when I try and cut and paste it into here

Very detailed condition by programme...one interesting abandoned match programme

Lots of water damage it see,s an d some others sound quite poor so maybe not the value frst throught but still a damn fine pick up for someone ( not me Smile )

PM me with email and I will forward to you...maybe someone technical can work our how to put onto the site Smile

peter
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Currently disposing of my collection so please email any wants lists to [email protected].
Most Plymouth post 1959 but plenty of others including reserves, friendlies, Cup Finals Internationals and Club issues, handbooks and other sports.
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kcs



Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Posts: 1655
Location: Ashford, Kent

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:13 am 
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05/09/1923 Aston Villa Badly damaged, pages 1-4 loose, pages 5-12 torn nearly all the way across the middle, pages 13-16 missing, lots of tears in general
08/09/1923Bolton Wanderers Some small tears near edges of covers/pages, lot of pages show liquid stain
22/09/1923 Sunderland Cover damaged/torn, lot of pages show liquid stain
06/10/1923 Arsenal Cover loose & torn down centre fold, lot of pages show liquid stain
27/10/1923 Blackburn Rovers Cover badly damaged torn down centre fold, lot so pages torn near staples, liquid stained
03/11/1923 Newcastle United Liquid stained
17/11/1923 Cardiff City Some pages come away from staple, liquid stained
01/12/1923 Notts County Liquid stained
15/12/1923 Everton Cover torn down centre fold & front loose, liquid stained
29/12/1923 & 01/01/1924 West Bromwich Albion & Tottenham Hotspur Cover torn nearly full way down centre fold, liquid stained
12/01/1924 Nottingham Forest Liquid stained
02/02/1924 Halifax Town
16/02/1924 Burnley
29/08/1925 & 31/08/1925 Cardiff City Res & West Bromwich A. Res.
12/09/1925 Manchester United
19/09/1925 Everton
03/10/1925 Sunderland
24/10/1925 Burnley
04/11/1925 Sheffield United
07/11/1925 The Arsenal
21/11/1925 Notts County
02/12/1925 Manchester United
05/12/1925 Leicester City
19/12/1925 Newcastle United
25/12/1925 & 26/12/1925 Res.Bury & Bury Res.
01/01/1926 & 02/01/1926 Res.West Bromwich Albion & Bradford City Res.
16/01/1926 Tottenham Hotspur
30/01/1926 Huddersfield Town
06/02/1926 Huddersfield Town
20/02/1926 Crystal Palace
27/02/1926 Liverpool
13/03/1926 West Ham United
02/04/1926 Birmingham & Bolton
03/04/1926 & 05/04/1926 Res. X 2 Birmingham, Bolton Wanderers Res. & Birmingham Res.
10/04/1926 Aston Villa
11/09/1926 Blackpool Some folds to bottom pages near centre
22/09/1926 Oldham Athletic
25/09/1926 Swansea Town
09/10/1926 Barnsley
30/10/1926 Clapton Orient
13/11/1926 Wolverhampton W.
27/09/1926 & 29/09/1926 South Shields & Bolton Wanderers
11/12/1926 Chelsea
25/12/1926 & 27/12/1926 Res.Middlesbrough & The Wednesday Res.
22/01/1927 Grimsby Town
05/02/1927 Reading
19/02/1927 Notts Forest
12/03/1927 Port Vale
26/03/1927 Notts County
09/04/1927 Hull City
23/04/1927 Preston North End
03/09/1927 & 05/09/1927 Res.Port Vale & Sheffield United Res.
17/09/1927 Leeds United
01/10/1927 Oldham Athletic
08/10/1927 Hull City Pages 12 & 13 slightly stuck together
29/10/1927 Reading
12/11/1927 Chelsea Slightly crumpled at top
26/11/1927 Stoke City
10/12/1927 West Bromwich Albion
24/12/1927 & 26/12/1927 Res.Notts County & Bury Res.
31/121927 & 02/01/1928 Wolverhampton W. & Barnsley
14/01/1928 Leeds United
21/01/1928 South Shields
04/02/1928 Notts Forest
18/02/1928 Stoke City
25/02/1928 Preston North End
03/03/1928 Blackpool Tear in pages 7-10 near top staple
17/03/1928 Grimsby Town
31/03/1928 Clapton Orient
06/04/1928, 07/04/1927 & 09/04/1928 Res. X 2Fulham, Sheffield Wednesday Res & Burnley Res.
14/04/1928 Bristol City
28/04/1928 Southampton
01/09/1928 Manchester United
08/09/1928 & 10/09/1928 Res.Huddersfield Town & Birmingham Res.
22/09/1928 The Arsenal
06/10/1928 Sunderland
27/10/1928 Leicester City
10/11/1928 Newcastle United
24/11/1928 Cardiff City
08/12/1928 Bury Pencil Notation of date on front cover, notes on player page say Abandoned Ground Unfit Replayed Wed Jan 30
22/12/1928 Liverpool
26/12/1928 Sheffield Wednesday
29/12/1928 & 01/01/1929 Res.Birmingham & Sheffield Wednesday Res.
26/01/1929 Everton
09/02/1929 Blackburn Rovers
23/02/1929 Derby County
02/03/1929 Leeds United
16/03/1929 West Ham United
29/03/1929 30/03/1929 & 01/04/1929 Res.Bolton Wanderers, Burnley & Bolton Wanderers Res.Pencil Notation on front cover
13/04/1929 Sheffield United
27/04/1929 Aston Villa
31/08/1929 Burnley
14/09/1929 Bolton Wanderers.
28/09/1929 & 30/09/1929 Res.Derby County & Manchester United Res.
19/10/1929 & 21/09/1929 West Ham United & Southport
02/11/1929 Middlesbrough
25/10/1930 Grimsby Town
16/11/1929 Newcastle United
30/11/1929 Huddersfield Town
07/12/1929 Res.Blackburn Rovers Res.
14/12/1929 Leicester City
06/12/1929 Newcastle United
25/12/1929, 26/12/1929 & 28/12/1929 Res. X 2 Aston Villa Res., Aston Villa & Bolton Wanderers Res.
01/01/1930 Sheffield Wednesday
04/01/1930 Sunderland
15/01/1930 Tottenham Hotspur Cover loose & section from top on front & back cover missing
29/01/1930 Swindon Town
03/02/1930 Charlton Athletic
05/02/1930 Everton
08/02/1930 Manchester United Top right corner missing from pages 1-9
15/02/1930 Hull City
26/02/1930 Portsmouth
01/03/1930 Liverpool
15/03/1930 Grimsby Town
29/03/1930 Sheffield United Ink company stamp on front cover
12/04/1930 Birmingham
18/04/1930, 19/04/1930 & 21/04/1930 Res. X 2 Wolverhampton W. Res., Liverpool Res. & Leeds United
26/04/1930 & 28/04/1930 Blackburn Rovers & Oldham Athletic
03/09/1930 Blackpool
06/09/1930 & 08/09/1930 Res.Leicester City & Leeds United Res.
20/09/1930 Sheffield United
04/10/1930 Manchester United
08/11/1930 Middlesbrough
22/11/1930 Bolton Wanderers
20/12/1930 Aston Villa
25/12/1930 & 27/12/1930 Arsenal & Sunderland
17/01/1931 Birmingham
21/02/1931 Sheffield Wednesday
07/03/1931 Liverpool
21/03/1931 Chelsea
03/04/1931, 04/04/1931 & 06/04/1931 Res.Blackburn Rovers, Huddersfield Town & Bury Res.
18/04/1931 & 20/04/1931 Res. West Ham United & Sheffield Wednesday Res.
29/08/1931 Sunderland
19/09/1931 Arsenal
03/10/1931 Sheffield United
17/10/1931 West Ham United
14/11/1931 Grimsby Town
28/11/1931 Aston Villa
16/01/1932 Leicester City
23/01/1932 Brentford
06/02/1932 Blackpool
13/02/1932 Derby County
26/03/1932 & 28/03/1932 Res.Burnley Res. & Birmingham
02/04/1932 Liverpool
10/09/1932 Arsenal
26/11/1932 Aston Villa
31/12/1932 Sunderland
18/01/1933 Gateshead
28/01/1933 Walsall
11/02/1933 Derby County
01/04/1933 Newcastle United
16/09/1933 Everton
23/09/1933 Res.Newcastle United Res.
30/09/1933 Blackburn Rovers
14/10/1933 Leeds United
12/10/1933 Aston Villa
04/11/1933 Sunderland
02/12/1933 Tottenham Hotspur
16/12/1933 Liverpool
26/12/1933 Derby County
06/01/1934 Leicester City Small tear on back page
13/01/1934 Blackburn Rovers
20/01/1934 Arsenal
31/01/1934 Hull City
03/02/1934 Middlesbrough
21/02/1934 Sheffield Wednesday
03/03/1934 Stoke City Lots of creasing
10/03/1934 Sheffield United
05/05/1934 Wolverhampton W.
01/09/1934 & 05/09/1934 Res.Sheffield Wednesday & Leeds United Res. Pencil notation on back page
15/09/1934 Stoke City
06/10/1934 Blackburn Rovers
20/10/1934 Derby County
03/11/1934 Tottenham Hotspur Pencil notation on front cover
17/11/1934 Huddersfield Town
01/12/1934 Grimsby Town
15/12/1934 Chelsea
22/12/1934 & 26/12/1934 Res.Derby County Res. & Leeds United
29/12/1934 & 01/01/1935 Res.West Bromwich Albion & Liverpool Res.
19/01/1935 Birmingham
02/02/1935 Leicester City
09/02/1935 Middlesbrough
09/03/1935 Aston Villa
06/04/1935 Everton
19/04/1935 20/04/1935 & 22/04/1935 Res.Portsmouth. Preston North End & Bury Res.
14/09/1935 Birmingham
28/09/1935 Portsmouth
05/10/1935 Stoke City
26/10/1935 Brentford
09/11/1935 Everton Pencil notation on front cover
23/11/1935 Sheffield Wednesday
07/12/1935 Aston Villa
25/12/1935 26/12/1935 & 28/12/1935 Res. X2 Chelsea, Liverpool Res. & West Bromwich Albion Res. Pencil notation on front cover
01/01/1936 Grimsby Town
04/01/1936 Sunderland
11/01/1936 Portsmouth
25/01/1936 Luton Town
22/02/1936 Preston North End
21/03/1936 Bolton Wanderers
04/04/1936 Derby County Some tears and tattiness to side of front page
10/04/1936 Leeds United
18/04/1936 Wolverhampton W.
05/09/1936 West Bromwich Albion Dark staining and bad tear on front cover
26/09/1936 Chelsea
10/10/1936 Charlton Athletic
17/10/1936 Derby County
31/10/1936 Sunderland Bad tearing around bottom edge
14/11/1936 Everton Bad tearing across back page
28/11/1936 Brentford
25/12/1936, 26/12/1936 & 28/12/1936 Res.Bury Res., Middlesbrough & Grimsby 1Bad creasing, some tearing, pencil notations on front cover
09/01/1937 Manchester United Slight wear on front cover, rip on back cover top corner
30/01/1937 Accrington Stanley
06/02/1937 Stoke City
27/02/1937 Wolverhampton W.
13/03/1937 Huddersfield
27/03/1937 Bolton Wanderers Big tear on front page and page 3
10/04/1937 Arsenal
24/04/1937 Sheffield Wednesday Big tears & holes throughout inc. front and back pages
01/09/1937 Everton
04/09/1937 Leicester City
15/09/1937 Huddersfield Town
18/09/1937 Derby County V. bad tearing throughout most, especially front page
09/10/1937 Blackpool
16/10/1937 Stoke City Front page and back two pages no longer attached to main booklet
30/10/1937 Birmingham
13/11/1937 Liverpool
27/11/1937 Grimsby Town
25/12/1937 Brentford
01/01/1938 Wolverhampton W.
12/01/1938 Millwall
22/01/1938 Bury
05/02/1938 Portsmouth
16/02/1938 Arsenal
19/03/1938 Preston North End
02/04/1938 Chelsea
15/04/1938 Bolton Wanderers Lots of dark discolouration & tearing inc. on front cover
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bisphamseasider



Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 2732
Location: Blackpool

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:52 am 
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WOW - what a collection.

Plenty of good condition ones by the looks of it as well as the very poor stuff.

I can't believe this is being sold as one lot.
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treble99



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 1000
Location: manchester

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:00 am 
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bisphamseasider wrote:
WOW - what a collection.

Plenty of good condition ones by the looks of it as well as the very poor stuff.

I can't believe this is being sold as one lot.


not sure what you mean by plenty of good condition

They've been stored somewhere damp
ALL have rusty staples
Many have foxing
Many have what the auction house describe as mucky and crumpled covers
Some have pieces missing throughout the programme

It needs very careful inspection as some aren't worth anything much at all
I think when you've sorted out what is acceptable you might not think it is that good after all especially as,as there are, far as i am aware,any pre war Manchester City collectors around any more

By selling in one lot the auction house has marginalised it to dealers with a few thousand pounds only
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bisphamseasider



Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 2732
Location: Blackpool

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:19 am 
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treble99 wrote:
bisphamseasider wrote:
WOW - what a collection.

Plenty of good condition ones by the looks of it as well as the very poor stuff.

I can't believe this is being sold as one lot.


not sure what you mean by plenty of good condition


Just going on the fact that some of them have detailed descriptions that indicate they are very poor and others don't.

I take it you have examined them all then and they are all poor. The descriptions are therefore misleading.

Of course anyone with the slightest interest in acquiring them would have to scrutinise them all in detail.
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Pete’s Picture Palace
Forum Moderator


Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 4215
Location: Wallington Surrey

PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 10:40 am 
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If someone reading this buys this collection, I would be very happy to offer a very good price for the Man City v C Palace Feb 1926 FA Cup programme irrespective of condition.

Good luck!
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pafcprogs



Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 992
Location: Westerham Kent

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:26 pm 
Post subject: City programmes went for £14,600 plus commission
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All I could hear at the end was the auctioneer saying unbelievable over and over again

Including commission about £70 quid a programme...

Not much margin there then Smile
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Currently disposing of my collection so please email any wants lists to [email protected].
Most Plymouth post 1959 but plenty of others including reserves, friendlies, Cup Finals Internationals and Club issues, handbooks and other sports.
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treble99



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 1000
Location: manchester

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:48 pm 
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£70 a programme including the first season at Maine Road,the FA cup winning season and the championship season

If any dealer had got off their arse they'd have also found the unnamed 1937 charity shield between Manchester City and Sunderland in mint condition
That's worth almost a grand by itself

Also two not noted games between Manchester City v Manchester United in both the Manchester Senior Cup and the Lancashire Senior Cup.
There's another £1200

There were 4 other Manchester City v Manchester United programmes worth a further £2400 if the prices achieved at Chris Williams sale a few years ago

That's almost 5 grand back immediately if they had been bought by a dealer

Then there was 12 decent programmes from the Manchester City first division championship winning season of 1936/37.The one Chris Williams sold averaged over £200 each and he didn't have most of these so there's another 3 grand
So that's now 8 grand back

16 More from the second division championship of 1927/28 so that's another 3 grand so now we have 11 grand back and we've only used 34 programmes

That's not even mentioning the first season at Maine Road which weren't that good but it is the first season

So when you've knocked out the above 34 programmes and knocked out say a further 20 that were just goosed beyond recognition that leaves about 190 programmes standing the winning bidder at about 5 grand or put another way,an average of 25 quid each for 1920's and 1930's Manchester City programmes

Not much in it???
Really!!!

Even taking the arsewpied programmes into account this had a retail value of £22k-24k

The good news is that they went to a collector which is where they should have gone anyway
Many side deals have been done but the top bid to be made was £10k more

To say there is nothing in it is laughable

A dealer wouldn't have got it as i say for less than £23k but the actual hammer price has £8k profit in it on the retail price
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pafcprogs



Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 992
Location: Westerham Kent

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:52 pm 
Post subject: thats a long email
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Given there a F*****g great smiley face at the end of mine saying not much in it Smile

Still at least we have your previous email which talks the whole lot down as being terrible condition etc etc...

Yawn.....
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Most Plymouth post 1959 but plenty of others including reserves, friendlies, Cup Finals Internationals and Club issues, handbooks and other sports.
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treble99



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 1000
Location: manchester

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:27 pm 
Post subject: Re: thats a long email
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pafcprogs wrote:
Given there a F*****g great smiley face at the end of mine saying not much in it Smile

Still at least we have your previous email which talks the whole lot down as being terrible condition etc etc...

Yawn.....


yes and everybody believed me and without viewing it everybody's an expert and with an opinion

I can honestly say that men of honour with reputations to protect got together and as we are happy and the auctioneer is happy and the vendor is happy and the dealers are happy because there wasn't enough in it then everybody is happy

Yawn all you want but if that's the way you deal it must be think pickings

For information the auction house also specialises in stamps including unused ones starting at half retail price.It might interest some "alledged" programme dealers
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Wullie



Joined: 10 Jun 2009
Posts: 3427

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:45 pm 
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With respect I haven't a clue what that is all about, but sounds like a collector bought an amazing collection. I'm pleased for him.
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Tynie Topics



Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Posts: 3508

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:57 pm 
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treble99 wrote:
By selling in one lot the auction house has marginalised it to dealers with a few thousand pounds only


Doesn't look like it.

Well done to the collector who bought the lot.
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Tynie Topics



Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Posts: 3508

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:58 pm 
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Wullie wrote:
With respect I haven't a clue what that is all about, but sounds like a collector bought an amazing collection. I'm pleased for him.


Ach it's just the usual "I know better than you" Wullie Wink
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pafcprogs



Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 992
Location: Westerham Kent

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:13 pm 
Post subject: Think pickings
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Well lets just say if it had been a similar Plymouth collection I would have been there ...and doubtless would be dealing with the divorce papers as a result...

But it wasn't ...so when I got the details I posted them on the forum so other collectors who may not have got them could make their own decisions...

(OK KCS managed the format side ...)

I didn't then make a judgement on them and comment on them until after the auction when I made an ironic remark about the margin....

At which point the person who had been most vocal about how overpriced they were after an inspection writes an essay on how foolish such an observation might be....

I would LOVE IT if I could pick up 200 plus Plymouth programmes prewar for £70 quid a pop...even if they were appalling condition

But what would I know...you are absolutely right I didn't go and see them...because they were of no interest to me

FFS even I am bored now...so congrats to whoever got a bargain, and to anyone who helped him to do so. Easy

I shall sleep safer now knowing there are men of honour policing the auction system on behalf of us poor collectors ( NB that's irony too)
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Currently disposing of my collection so please email any wants lists to [email protected].
Most Plymouth post 1959 but plenty of others including reserves, friendlies, Cup Finals Internationals and Club issues, handbooks and other sports.
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BAZZABAGGIES



Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 1920

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:17 pm 
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Collector / dealer on Ebay Nod
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Wullie



Joined: 10 Jun 2009
Posts: 3427

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:23 pm 
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There was a Newcastle United pre war collection a few years ago covered on the forum somewhere . It turned out that they were water damaged. Put a real dampener on it. Not a big fan of stains, no matter how old.
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treble99



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 1000
Location: manchester

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:02 pm 
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Wullie wrote:
There was a Newcastle United pre war collection a few years ago covered on the forum somewhere . It turned out that they were water damaged. Put a real dampener on it. Not a big fan of stains, no matter how old.


Understandable but i know ho bought them and he isn't a dealer

They were indeed ruthed

Off to Eamomn with them for repair and took what he needed for his own collection and yawn yawn sold the rest at a bloody big profit

It's not often you see any pre first world war Newcastle United programmes never mind a whole collection

He too sleeps well

If you want to see a Newcastle v Manchester United pre first world war then go to the worlds largest private Manchester United collection at

www.flickr.com/photos/63580000@N04/sets

The site of the finalist of the big willie award

Night night
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goonerboy



Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1047

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:18 am 
Post subject: Re: City programmes went for £14,600 plus commission
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pafcprogs wrote:
All I could hear at the end was the auctioneer saying unbelievable over and over again

Including commission about £70 quid a programme...

Not much margin there then Smile


I didn't follow the sale, what was the final hammer price ?
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bisphamseasider



Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 2732
Location: Blackpool

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:28 am 
Post subject: Re: City programmes went for £14,600 plus commission
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goonerboy wrote:

I didn't follow the sale, what was the final hammer price ?


There is another thread about this auction and it was mentioned on there.

£14.600 plus commission.
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martino



Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 2163
Location: Beautiful downtown Goostrey, Cheshire

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:54 pm 
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Well done to whoever purchased them.

I hope he or she will see a good return on their:

£14600
Commission at say 20% £2,920
Restoration costs £???
Auction house commission £???
Advertising costs £???
Other costs £???.
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