Help from Manchester United or Sheffield United historians

[treble99]

I am just loading onto my flickr page programmes from season 1942/43.
I have a programme from a game played on 1/5/1943 for Manchester United v Sheffield United.
I have most of the home programmes for that season and we started off with the Football League North which was followed by the War Cup qualifying rounds and the War Cup actual.
After that Manchester United played in the Lancashire Senior cup.
Just before the final of the Lancashire Senior Cup up pops this game.
It is not shown on the fixture list on the back of the programme before this game,this game or the programme for the final after this game.
In my old history book it is shown as Football League North 2nd competition but that is a one off game.
Anybody have an explanation please?
You can see the programme at flickr in either my photostream or season 1942/43

www.flickr.com/photos/63580000@N04/sets

[sharrowblade]

Afternoon Raymond,

Its important to remember that the League's were non-sensical during the war.

For example, in regards to the Blades, the first competition was between local opponents. the second competition for the League that season consisted of 10 war cup Qualifiers, 6 War Cup ties, two Sheffield and Hallamshire County Cup games and this one game versus Manchester United. We played one less game than the champions Liverpool and the runners up Lovells.

The Cup, as it used to, created a lot of interest.

The League however, during the war was an entirely different matter, there were no League tables published during the season, at the time, supporters were unaware that these games were being counted in a League format, and were later astonished when these monstrous tables of 45 or so team were published after the war around 1945-6.

One last thing, the game was played at Maine Road, (originally meant to be Bramall Lane) because of a Sheffield Transport Strike, and with a low attendance of around 5,000 you've got yourself a nice programme.

Regards Sharrowblade.
_________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sharrowblade/sets
A Sheffield United Programme guide

[treble99]

Thanks for trying to help Sharrowblade.
I contacted the Manchester United museum and they have no record of it in the minute books either.
The only two things they could think of,and it was a wild guess,is that Manchester United had a 3 week gap between the Lancashire Cup semi final against Oldham and the final against Liverpool so probably would have a liked a game.
If Sheffield United were in a similiar position they might have fancied playing what was effectively a friendly

The alternative was that the War cup and/or Lancashire Senior cup games doubled as a 2nd set of league games after the first set finished in December and this was one of those.

Interesting though that it doesn't get a mention in official records.
I think it is better than a nice programme and i am very proud to own it.
Possibly the only one in existence and at worst a very rare item and proudly sits in my flickr page under the heading "not many of these buggers about"

www.flickr.com./photos/63580000@N04/sets
The worlds largest private Manchester United collection coming to a computer near you

[sharrowblade]

First of all, I must say I'm surprised that the Club have no record of the game, we have, but I suppose that what comes with supporting a second rate club.

Joking aside, as I already mentioned, War Cup games, county matches and any other games doubled as League matches, something that the clubs, and supporters weren't aware of at the time.

In all probability, this would have been a friendly, later to be declared a League North fixture, at the end of the war by the football league.

The fact that the game should have been played at the Lane, but due to circumstances forced a switch, adds just that little more to it, I think.

Proud to own it, yes, why not, it's not the kind of programme, us United fans are used to, .......as everyone seems to tell us, that programmes involving either sheffield club are ten a penny.

Thanks for sharing the image Ray

Best regards, Sharrowblade.
_________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sharrowblade/sets
A Sheffield United Programme guide

[treble99]

It is a pleasure to share the images.
That's partly why i am a member of this forum ie to help others.
I take my inspiration from others.
Just found a Manchester United v Sheffield United from a season earlier(1941/42).This season is really very very difficult.It is probable that there was not enough paper around to print programmes for some games but nobody is really sure.
I have loaded them on my flickr page in season 1941/42.

www.flickr.com/photos/63580000@N04/sets
The worlds largest Manchester United collection coming to a computer near you

[sharrowblade]

Once again Ray, thanks for the image much appreciated.

The Manchester United/Sheffield United 1941/2 March 21st, I note with interest that someone has written 3-0.

Strange when the game ended 2-2.

I wonder if it was possibly in the possession of a child some point, I don't think it was uncommon back then for children to play out a match on the streets and mark down a ficticious score,
_________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sharrowblade/sets
A Sheffield United Programme guide

[ashburton-grove]

All I can find is that the North second Championship ran from 26.12.1941 until 1.5.1943.
Could this possibly be Uniteds last match of that league or is it just a coincidence the date is the same?
_________________
"We have a problem with Sol Campbell" Arsene Wenger. 04/02/06

[sharrowblade]

treble99 wrote:

I think it is better than a nice programme and i am very proud to own it. Possibly the only one in existence and at worst a very rare item and proudly sits in my flickr page under the heading "not many of these buggers about" www.flickr.com./photos/63580000@N04/sets The worlds largest private Manchester United collection coming to a computer near you

Sorry Ray, forgot to mention, my mate has one.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sharrowblade/6579119405/in/set-72157628586901699

Regards, Sharrowblade
_________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sharrowblade/sets
A Sheffield United Programme guide

[treble99]

just goes to show you.
where there's one there's two

well done

[martino]

I have not read the above in detail but I suppose the only way to sort this one out is to look through the local newspapers around that time which should give a match report and hopefully whether it was a "friendly" or not.

If you do this do not do what I usually do and spend all day getting engrossed in the stories of the time - it can be very addictive; oh yes and interesting if you like a bit of social history.

[sharrowblade]

martino wrote:

I have not read the above in detail but I suppose the only way to sort this one out is to look through the local newspapers around that time which should give a match report and hopefully whether it was a "friendly" or not.

All games were unofficial, with players guesting for whichever clubs they were stationed nearby. My grandfather had a promising career finished by a Scottish International who was in barracks at doncaster. Games were played to keep the populous entertained. Consequently, there wasn't a league in operation, it didn't exist, there were no league tables published or kept, it was only after the war, that these tables were produced.
_________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sharrowblade/sets
A Sheffield United Programme guide

[treble99]

Manchester United have confirmed that this was a "league game" in their records.
Don't know where and don't know when.
They describe it as being "very strange"