Rare Manchester United Badge Season 1920/21

[markb9060]

Just thought I`d upload a picture of a rare lead Manchester United Stewards Badge from the 1920/21 Season.

This badge measures a little over 3" by 2", is made out of lead and has a hole at the top which I presume would have been attached to string or a chain?

It is inscribed with the words :

"Steward...Manchester United Season 1920-21

Turnstile A1"


Apologies for picture quality which is mainly due to my amateurish attempts to work out even basically how to operate my new Canon 550d SLR camera (some of you may recall my "what camera?" thread a couple of weeks ago)

Although in my defence, with the badge being very old and grey (it`s lead remember ! ) and fairly worn, it`s not the most photogenic item.
I do hope to really get to grips with this camera as a hobby as well as possibly starting a flickr page for my collection so it`s going to take a lot of researching, reading and patience.

Anyway, getting back to the all important badge. I actually won this on Ebay a couple of years ago for £87.

If you were to search for "Manchester United Lead Stewards Badge Season 1920/21" on Google, I`m fairly confident that you will only come up with one result....in this case the badge sold for £100 at `Special Auction Services` near Reading....that badge is the same one because unlike my photograph, their auction photo was crystal clear (give me time ! ) so I could compare it in minute detail and it is definitely the same badge.

Which leaves two possibilities....

(a) it is exceedingly rare
or
(b) it is a fake.

Incidentally, looking at a photo of Old Trafford from a similar period, I`m fairly certain that Turnstile A1 was in a very prominent area ie almost next to the players entrance.

I would be more than grateful if anyone could throw any light on this item or similar items from other clubs. Why would it be deemed necessary to wear anything so big and heavy?

Any info would be much appreciated.

[slightfold]

Lead is fetching a good price a the moment, you could weigh it in! Seriously it does look genuine, the patina, how it has darkened over the years, might be hard to fake.I'm sure you know but what ever you do,don't clean it.

[markb9060]

That`s one thig I haven`t done...cleaned it as can clearly be seen in yet another much improved photo...I`m getting the hang of this camera !

Lets try another...

[markb9060]

Yet another photo....

[slightfold]

Thinking about it, maybe it was not worn at all. Maybe it's something to do with the turnstile operator and when the money was counted as a kind of tally check? Just a suggestion.

[markb9060]

slightfold wrote:

Thinking about it, maybe it was not worn at all. Maybe it's something to do with the turnstile operator and when the money was counted as a kind of tally check? Just a suggestion.

Hadn`t thought of that...sounds feasible though.

Just going back to the cleaning. It does have a typical lead related whitish colour to it not sure if anyone has attempted to clean the badge and worsened the condition. Just strange that there is absoloutely no info on this item online (that I`ve been lucky enough to find anyway)

Thanks for input.

[holtie96]

Where's Leslie when you need him?
It is only a matter of time and the mystery will be solved the badge not where is Leslie!

[kstand]

I think turnstile A1 was to the top left section to the old Main Stand at OT.

[markb9060]

ollie wrote:

I think turnstile A1 was to the top left section to the old Main Stand at OT.

So I was right about it being on the Players Entrance side but slightly further up.

[holtie96]

Still no Leslie?

[markb9060]

holtie96 wrote:

Still no Leslie?

I don`t think anything like this has turned up before so he probably wouldn`t know.

[lincolnredman]

is leslie busy watching re-runs of where the title was lost with fergie

[markb9060]

lincolnredman wrote:

is leslie busy watching re-runs of where the title was lost with fergie

The title was lost when city spent £800 million trying to win it !!

[manchesterunitedman1]

markb9060 wrote:

holtie96 wrote: Still no Leslie? I don`t think anything like this has turned up before so he probably wouldn`t know.

You think so do you?

There seen to have been a number of these stewards badges appearing over the last 2-3 years all of a sudden, most at various auctions-just fakes.
Out of the Blue some9 0 years later this and others like it have turned up and when sold wents for relatively modest prices in relation to anything pre-war Manchester United. I can recall one turning up 10 or so years ago i personally didn't get too excited as i kind of felt it was not right somehow. I do not even know if the United museum has an original-not even sure if there is an original and all the ones that have shown up were all the same season!. Sorry Mark but there would have to be some provenance for me on an item like this-just my opinions, maybe contact Mark Wylie at the United museum-send him the image and ask him if they have one to compare it too?

Thinking about it i recall one of these badges in some auction never sold and then it was put in again in another a few weeks later-could have been the same one that you picked up?

[holtie96]

Phew we found him

[manchesterunitedman1]

lincolnredman wrote:

is leslie busy watching re-runs of where the title was lost with fergie

i was under the impression there are two games left until the season is decided, and squeaky bum time has never been so apparent for the bitters-each and everyone is shitting themselves about Newcastle and after that Cisse wonder strike last night can u blame them!
United has an inferior side to City this season yet after 36 games only goal difference seperates them so we are not doing so bad then, better than every other premier league club bar City AND who knows maybe there is still a final twist of the knife into the bitters ribs!!-i for one would be amazed if we won it again this season with the team we have which does not say much for the rest of them!
United have totally over achieved this season, City should have been over the hill and far away, they had an massive lead and a 17 goal difference and lost it and then we also gained an advantage and blew it as well-so who will win it. NO ONE CAN STILL CALL IT DESPITE THIS MONDAY NIGHTS MATCH, so i cannot understand why you or anyone else is running around telling me and everyone else United have lost the league??.

[markb9060]

manchesterunitedman1 wrote:

markb9060 wrote: holtie96 wrote: Still no Leslie? I don`t think anything like this has turned up before so he probably wouldn`t know. You think so do you? There seen to have been a number of these stewards badges appearing over the last 2-3 years all of a sudden, most at various auctions-just fakes. Out of the Blue some9 0 years later this and others like it have turned up and when sold wents for relatively modest prices in relation to anything pre-war Manchester United. I can recall one turning up 10 or so years ago i personally didn't get too excited as i kind of felt it was not right somehow. I do not even know if the United museum has an original-not even sure if there is an original and all the ones that have shown up were all the same season!. Sorry Mark but there would have to be some provenance for me on an item like this-just my opinions, maybe contact Mark Wylie at the United museum-send him the image and ask him if they have one to compare it too? Thinking about it i recall one of these badges in some auction never sold and then it was put in again in another a few weeks later-could have been the same one that you picked up?

So there we have it....probably a fake. I suggested as such in earlier message but wasn`t sure.

Anyway Leslie, thanks for your thoughts and observations on this item. I haven`t completely given up on it and will certainly take up your advice in contacting Mark Wylie at the United Museum.

I somehow doubt very much that he would have an original, what I`m more interested in is finding out if such badges have ever been used at Old Trafford and if so in what capacity?

Obviously these things take a little time but I`ll get back to you with my findings.

How strange that someone would go out of their way to reproduce something that`s never even existed !...

Watch this space............

[manchesterunitedman1]

Mark

I never said it never existed I said ask Mark Wylie to see if he has one and can shed light on the whole matter.
When you think about it what u say is right as there has to be something originally produced to make copies from?? all i know is these badges have been turning up recently and always the same season? strange isnt it-never any other seasons just this one. Interesting to see what Mark says. Condition looks very good too-too good and very little wear and tear for an item allegedly so old. All the best in getting to grips with it!
Leslie

[Valky]

Anorak question time - what in the end was this badge actually used for then please?
Was it worn around a button hole as you have at racecourses these days from officials?
It's stuff like this that I logged onto this forum for - to learn new things - and not to find 23 varieties of a modern league unofficial matchday badge being offered for sale!

[manchesterunitedman1]

Valky wrote:

Anorak question time - what in the end was this badge actually used for then please? Was it worn around a button hole as you have at racecourses these days from officials? It's stuff like this that I logged onto this forum for - to learn new things - and not to find 23 varieties of a modern league unofficial matchday badge being offered for sale!

Not at all-sensible comment-yes it would have been worn around a button hole to show the person was a Steward and had some authority from the club.