1930s Gillingham

[tommy]

I am putting this feeler out on the premise that it is good to talk.

Graham Budd has an extensive collection of 1930s Gillingham programmes coming up at his next auction on 15th May. I haven’t yet seen these but the condition of the programmes will probably hold the price back, they all are described as having punched holes nevertheless Gillingham pre-wars don’t come along too often. A few years ago Gary Arkell unearthed a great collection of Gillingham homes mainly in good condition. Gary auctioned these individually which was ideal for the one club collector like myself. However Graham has a different idea and he will be auctioning the Gillingham programmes lumped together in season lots. This very much suits the dealers and makes it expensive for the one club collector to buy. I think Graham’s and Sotheby’s principle is to keep the average lot price high, probably looks good in Microsoft Powerpoint presentations. It would appear that they would rather sell one lot of say twenty programmes for £1000 than twenty lots for £100 each, ridiculous really but that is the way it is. I have marked out six lots (726, 727, 728, 730, 731 and 732) to view, until then I will not know exactly which lots I will be interested in. If a really keen Gillingham collector with deep pockets goes for these lots good luck to them but I think it very likely that a dealer will be favourite to buy these lots, split them up and sell them individually at a later date, which is fine. I don’t mind dealers doing that, it is their prerogative. I have waited for individual programmes to turn up before but I feel that there could be another proactive way. If two or more serious one club collectors can get together they will increase their chances of beating any dealer buying a lot. So if other serious one club collectors whose club played Gillingham in the thirties would like to come in with me and share the costs and divide up a lot accordingly PM me and perhaps we can sort something out to our mutual benefit. I am not a dealer, I specialise in one club. Untrusting that I am the one stipulation is that all parties must be at the auction in person and payment is divided out at the point of sale. Auction houses hope that we collectors don’t talk and bid against each other but as I said it is good to talk. Send me a PM if you are interested. Sorry if I have pissed off any dealers but rest assured you have made a good return on me over the many years that I have been collecting and no doubt you will continue to do so in the future.

[BAZZABAGGIES]

Im a dealer and everyone pisses me off.
If i were you i would get a little consortium together and bid on the lots you require and then split them up between you.

[garyspain]

definitely recommend it as a way to go. Dealers are there to make a profit and will have their limits.

I would recommend being very clear on

1) How each lot will be split if successful. I'd be as specific as possible.

2) The limit eg max price incl commission.

I've done something similar a few times and it has worked well. I also know of cases where it has gone badly wrong and left a sour taste.

Another thing to be wary of it if 1 item in the lot is particularly scarce and you/one of the others only discovers it after the auction. This can lead to bad feeling.

Nothing worse than 2 people chasing a lot up and needing a different item each from it.

[Fishy]

Hi Tommy,

Just had a look through the Budd lots - the only one I would be interested in is the 37/8 Millwall v Gills (as a one-club, Millwall collector).

As I am in Cornwall, travelling to London with a chance of one programme is not on for me.

All I can say is that I have a gap for it and if you get the lot I would be very interested.

I realise that you want a better guarantee but I'm sure that you understand my reasoning.

Good luck
ian

[holtie96]

I am in the same boat as I will be at work, would be interested in Guildford city issues.

[Shotsman]

As a serious Aldershot Town Collector I would be happy to join your merry band, but I only require the 1937/38 and 38/39 issues.

Roland

[Shotsman]

Just spotted I cannot be at the auction, perhaps Holtie, if he goes could act as my agent

[matt blue]

Id be interested in the cardiff programmes, we played them a lot in the mid 30s
_________________
http://cardiffcityprogrammes.weebly.com/

Take a look at my work in progress !!

[tommy]

Thank you Barry and Gary for the sound advice and encouragement, very much appreciated. I am slightly worried that this thread could be heading off track a little. So to bring things back on track I would like to emphasise that I do not want to bid for these lots outright and sell off spares to individual collectors or enter them into another auction that is what dealers do. Besides my wife would divorce me if I spent ‘X’ thousands of pounds on a few programmes that I require. What I propose is subtlety different. Multi-programme lots such as the 1930s Gillingham’s really lend themselves to a few serious collectors getting together, spreading the costs dividing up the contents and having a few useful spares for exchanging, which after all should be the true essence of collecting. Collecting should not just be about making a profit sometimes it would be good to join together and help each other. Like Gary Spain says I have also done this at auction before and it has worked very well. This occasion gives us some time to organise ourselves and I feel this forum is the right place to start the ball rolling. For a consortium to work properly and in an effort to keep things simple and straightforward all parties need to be at the auction so a strategy can be finalised and any winning lots can be paid for and divided up immediately. I must also emphasise the importance of discretion remember this is a public forum and anybody good and bad can read and post here. Also talking openly about specific lots before an auction takes place is not wise. That is why I have asked anybody interested to PM me. So who is up for a consortium? Three or four in each lot would make the costs reasonable and enable us a good chance to obtain a nice item for the collection and have a few useful spares for exchanging. It is early days because before I view the lots I don’t know exactly which ones I will be interested in. I will probably be viewing on the Sunday 13th May.

[Shotsman]

You have another PM

[treble99]

Lots of presumptions here.
i wish you guys luck but i think failure might be the operative word and it's getting complicated.

the first presumption was in the first post which presumed they were all lumped together for a dealer.
they were actually lumped together becausr
1 They arrived at Graham's auction house literally hours before he went to press and he didn't have time to sort them
2 the seller is not a long time collector/dealer who won't sell for less than a certain amount.He just wants to sell so
3 Graham,having consulted an expert,has put them in at a sensible price to make sure they do sell.
So now a consortium is going together which is fine but you are presuming that you can contact everyone who has an interest and also pay more than a dealer is prepared to pay.
the problem is the state of the programmes and how much will it cost a dealer to repair them.
Ha anybody contacted Eamomn to see what he will charge because as a better programme than they already are they could be worth significantly more than people presume they might be worth.
So many hurdles to jump but good luck

[BAZZABAGGIES]

http://www.grahambuddauctions.co.uk/default.asp


MAN UNITED v BRISTOL CITY Cup Final on view

[treble99]

great programme and indeed never offered before but will it sell

we will see who has a spare £20k.
i would love to own it but don't value it that high in the current economic market.
i don't think you'd get your money back for a long,long time.

i am aware that the Manchester United museum are not interested at that price either.
That's 2 senior Manchester United collectors ruled out.

There are of course other senior collectors of whom i have no knowledge of their intentions and there is at least one senior Bristol City collector who can afford it if he chooses to want it.
There are of course cup final collectors as well who have never seen this.

A fascinating scenario.
If it does sell it might flush more out as well

i have just reached the milestone of 1930 in my home collection on flickr so with the 1920's behind me i shall continue onto the most extensive 1930's Manchester United home programmes in existence

www.flickr.com/photos/63580000@N04/sets

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