Authentic teamsheets? |
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andy1966
Joined: 06 Jul 2009 Posts: 619
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:27 pm
Post subject: Authentic teamsheets? |
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How can I tell that a teamsheet I buy is an original? It seems to me that it could be easily photocopied.
My suspicions have been raised by some sellers on ebay having plenty of copies of teamsheets available for games played a decade ago.
Just wondered whether there was a check that could be made regarding the age of the paper?
Any thoughts? |
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sharrowblade Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 3597 Location: Beautiful Downtown Bramall Lane
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:55 pm
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The simple answer is that you can never be 100% certain.
Unless you've been to the game and got one in person, or have a issue from the same club for the same season, so a comparison can be made.
The main problem arises when the 'teamsheet' doubles as the programme. When potentially people can be paying a lot for something that isn't genuine.
I do despise sellers who knowingly sell teamsheets knowing that they're a poor copy done on their HP in their bedroom. There's a seller on ebay who is a member of this forum, who should look at one of two of his offerings and pull them.
Having said all that, the bottom line is that all teamsheets are photocopies.
It's probably why few people collect them, and of course they're relatively modern, when a programme is available they aren't worth anything.
Still, I have a bizarre fetish for them and will keep on collecting them.
Regards Sharrowblade _________________ http://www.flickr.com/photos/sharrowblade/sets
A Sheffield United Programme guide |
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andy1966
Joined: 06 Jul 2009 Posts: 619
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:51 pm
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As you say the main issue is when it doubles as the programme. If a programme is issued I am not that bothered about the teamsheet.
I have had a few bids on ebay beaten at the last minute and then all of a sudden I have a second chance offer. Doesn't feel right if you know what I mean.
Either a copy spoof bidding to get the price higher. |
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andy1966
Joined: 06 Jul 2009 Posts: 619
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:03 pm
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Is anyone on here caiden1053 on ebay? It seems he has plenty of really rare Everton v Gornik Zabre teamsheets for sale. I am sure he has sold a couple already. Seems odd that he has so many as it is a rare item |
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Evertonia
Joined: 19 Sep 2011 Posts: 4
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:16 pm
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I queried with him after I had submitted a report to ebay as after buying a Sligo Rovers v Everton teamsheet from him, i knew straight away it was a copy.
I also challenged him about the situation and he admitted that the first he sold was an original and the rest were indeed photocopies.
As for Gornik, Dan Miller had reservations about one I sold him a couple of years ago. I know for a fact it was 100% genuine and he wasnt so sure. I have sold at least three copies of that teamsheet and I know full well that they have been genuine. I obtained my own copies of it from playing staff as I knew Steve Milne was knocking out photocopied teamsheets at that time due to my subscription with him.
The replacement copy I got for Mr Miller came from Dave France.
As I would not accept photocopies of any kind in my collection, I wouldnt sell any.
My own feelings on the ebayer in question are very dubious as he used to do a bit for Steve Milne. |
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andy1966
Joined: 06 Jul 2009 Posts: 619
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:01 pm
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I did contact him and he said he had got them from Steve Milne |
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slightfold
Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 594
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:06 pm
Post subject: Authentic teamsheets |
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I agree with the replies to the question, it is difficult to know whether a teamsheet is genuine, unless you have others from the same stable as it were to compare. I mainly collect first and last, league clubs and ground moves. The last game played at Maine Rd was on 11/5/03 by their under 17's v Leeds Utd. I had a copy of this teamsheet for years until I bought another and discovered my first copy was a forgery. The original is on much thicker paper, has a yellow band across the bottom and the blue masthead goes fully across the top and the blue is bright compared with the copy. I pulled the collector who I have dealt with for years and who sold the forgery to me and he said he had bought it from a dealer but couldn't remember which one! Most teamsheets are knocked out at the clubs on their printers I believe. You should see the Crawley ones in which the print has slipped a bit, and they are right as they came from Ian Hands who is a really sound dealer. The bottom line is that it is very difficult to tell, so unless you're 100% certain don't pay strong money. |
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todorovsknee
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 7
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:18 am
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to answer the original question how can i tell if its an original....
all football clubs give away teamsheets on match days to the punters in the corporate seats and the press..
copies are easy to spot as they are nomally on normal paper and not the thicker better quality paper that most teams use.
as for sellers having lots from the same game this is normal as when i visit several clubs on corporate days i grab dozens as they are normally just left with a big bundle of the programmes.
i sell teamsheets on ebay and yes i agree there are some people who will sell copies but they are again easy to spot as most copies will be lighter colours than the originals.
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todorovsknee
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 7
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:21 am
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always ask the ebay seller to confirm its an original and not a copy and ask again whether there is anything printed on the back as most clubs sell the back of the teamsheet to advertises and not many are blank....there are a few clubs who have shocking teamsheets, brighton springs to mind and there originals all look like fakes they are that bad..... |
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todorovsknee
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 7
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:23 am
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if the seller confirms its an original and it turns out to be a copy you can then ask for a refund via paypal as the goods are not as described and of course ebay will check messages sent between the two of you and see that they confirmed its not copied so should have no probs getting your money back
hope the above all helps |
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sharrowblade Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 3597 Location: Beautiful Downtown Bramall Lane
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:42 am
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The waters are further muddied as it were, by poor quality originals.
For whatever reason, some clubs have far better quality teamsheets than others, as Todorovsknee has pointed out.
As some of you support Everton, you'll know theirs last season could be seen as a bit suspect, single sided sheet, thinnish paper, easy to copy, if I hadn't been to the actual game. then I would have had doubts.
If you go to Bury, you;ll be able to get a single sided black and white teamsheet from reception. It's genuine but unless you know that, it gives the impression of being a cheap photocopy. The fact that a nice colour one is available to download from the club's website which can be printed onto far better quality paper at your leisure doesn't help matters.
To add to the confusion, I have been to places like Lincoln, where both colour and black and white copies have been printed, and even here at Sheffield United some of the late 90s both black and white and colour versions were available at times. _________________ http://www.flickr.com/photos/sharrowblade/sets
A Sheffield United Programme guide |
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ToffeeDan
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 Posts: 2148 Location: Wirral
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:09 am
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Yes, I've seen the caiden Gornik sheet AGAIN. It seems almost impossible for there to be so many ORIGINALS out there - how many "directors" do Everton have (not many if current affairs are anything to go by). I used to be a 300 Club member for many years & back then they issued these teamsheets to directors/press & 300-500 club members, later to some in the main stand - as far as I'm aware not many of these mid 70s to mid 80s teamsheets are still around & hardly any are offered for sale. The fact of the matter is that just under 10,000 attended this hastily arranged game so if any more than a bare handful (let's say 100) were issued they would have turned up now & again somewhere - ebay / dealers etc. So it really is the realms of fantasy to imagine one guy in the NE having 4-5 ORIGINAL copies with so few existing and so many wanting one.
The quality of the Everton teamsheet, freely available from the reception on matchdays (as well as to those in the hospitality areas) is just normal printed/coloured paper. There is of course the opportunity to use a decent printers to make copies but they are so numerous (and there's only a limited demand) as to render this a pointless exercise |
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Healing
Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Posts: 264
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:55 am
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Buyer Beware
Does any-one have an ORIGINAL team-sheet for sale?
Everton vs Dundee Utd 76-77
How will I know it is the genuine thing? |
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todorovsknee
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 7
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:36 am
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hi mate
teamsheets from the 70's should be easy to spot originals due to the condition and quality of the paper.also most from that time would have been typed so look carefully at the type and try to identify if the type is original or is a photo copy....shouldnt be too hard to spot |
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todorovsknee
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 7
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:50 am
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there seems to be alot on here about a ebayer selling everton teamsheets..i have just looked at the three he is currently selling and for what its worth i would suggest that all 3 are 100% copies...i have the original of the scunthorpe one and its full colour i also have the macclesfield one with the team badges in bright colour....the main problem with copies is that when people just copy them at hom ethe colours are not as sharp as when the originals are run on very expensive good quality laserjet printers at the clubs........... |
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andy1966
Joined: 06 Jul 2009 Posts: 619
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:57 am
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Thanks for the input here, really appreciated. |
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johnwells
Joined: 06 Mar 2009 Posts: 474
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Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:01 am
Post subject: Team Sheets |
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Hi, I collected Brighton teamsheetsm and have decidcd to sell many of them, all guaranteed genuine from a press source at the ground.
Though the design was usually standard for a period in the late 90's and early Withdena days it seems that there were variations fron game to game, depending on what paper was available.
We are talking about PRESS SHEETS rather than RESERVE team sheets, in both cases very limited copies were printed and f numbers required then extra copies (Often black and white were run off )
ALL MY STOCK IS AS ISSUED ON THE DAY and are available on www,footballcollecting.com
RATHER |
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