Sheffield & Manchester Xmas fairs

[BAZZABAGGIES]

Well said Dave.
Im sure the moaning washerwomen on here would be happy to sell us some rare programmes at rock bottom prices.
We can make a pound or two on them and offer them to the punters at a fair price.
Perhaps we could offer the two moaning minnies on here a stall, then we can have a good laugh at them and see some of the dross they put on display

[ForestMick]

Well, what a happy thread this is!! So good to see dealers and collectors getting on so well, and explains why this hobby is booming!!
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[Senior82]

footballprogrammes.com wrote:

The dimensions of the room are more than adequate for both stallholders and customers. Yes it gets busy for the first hour or so and long may that continue! Isn’t it great to see so many people all interested in the same thing you are? You fail to mention it has the best bar area of any fair in the country with chesterfield sofas to review purchases, chat with fellow collectors and folk can bob in and out of the room as they please as there is no admission fee. There’s no doubt that the silent majority are happy and indeed sharrow blade and sufin Jim are the only ‘less than complimentary’ comments I am aware of in the 25 years that I have been exhibiting there. It has certainly always been my favourite fair of the year. David Allen

If you believe the room is 'adequate' then you're deluded. It's an awful room. Size, temperature and layout are all awful. Last year I spent 5 minutes literally stuck in a corner due to everything being crammed together, there's the bottleneck entrance, the sahara like temperatures (maybe it just feels that way as it's usually minus 2 outside). I go if i'm not busy and it's 10 minutes from where I live, I certainly wouldn't go out of my way for it.

And sorry if i'm being negative/disruptive etc etc but those are my honest comments as a collector

[Ann Orack]

I feel as if we’ve got a bit of ‘Litsteritis’ going on here. We’ve always done it like that so why change?

I speak as a user of the fair. It’s far too cramped. I attend out of a moral obligation to support the fair but quite honestly rarely buy anything because its too much effort to jostle around tripping over other punters bags. I’m quite happy to clutter centre stage with a few other guys and bemoan the cramped room and the local clubs footballing demise.

I will struggle to agree with a Blunt but that Sharrowblunt guy often speaks common sense. The Sheffield dealer should be there, with possibly 1 or 2 other dealers adding new blood and it should be in a bigger room.

Oh and by the way Bazzabaggies ones mans dross is another mans embryonic collection. No wonder collecting is on the demise ( that’s twice in 1 passage but I can’t be arsed to look for an alternative word). I bet theres many a man ( or woman) on here whos collection has been fuelled by the odd bulk grab bag bought at a fair or from the local club shop

Please Dave open the invite to the Sheffield dealer and lets have some new blood

Flippin eck I didn't realise us northeners were such a load of moaning whingers

[surfinjim]

BAZZABAGGIES wrote:

Perhaps we could offer the two moaning minnies on here a stall, then we can have a good laugh at them and see some of the dross they put on display

Why would I want to do that Barry? I'm not a dealer, I don't have a "stock". I have my collection that I have pain stakingly and lovingly put together. It's my collection, might not be to everyone else's taste, but I couldn't give a flying you know what. It's mine. Some of the "dross" cost next to nothing, but it still needed buying. A lot of the more expensive bits came from a dealer who actually seems to give two hoots about his customers, hence the repeat trade.

Have you ever heard the phrase......"The customer is always right?" Have a think about that Barry. You seem to be trying your hardest to alienate yourself.

I will be at the fair, work permitting, never said I wouldn't be. I might spend, I might not. It depends what is on offer. It might be £1, it might be £50. It might be more. Who knows, if Father Christmas has been kind I might even liberate the Sheffield/Glasgow from Denis! It's highly unlikely to end up in the pocket of some pompous fool though.

The one thing you can take from this thread so far though about the Sheffield Fair, is the difference of opinion on the venue. Dealers appear to like it, collectors hate it. "Closed shop" I think was the phrase used. Too right!
_________________
26th December 1979

Bolder, Blackhall, Williamson, Smith, Pickering, Hornsby, King, Johnson, McCulloch, Mellor, Curran.

Scorers; Mellor, King, Curran, Smith (pen)

GODS EVERY ONE OF THEM!

[sharrowblade]

Aye there's alot to be said for continuity, but the downside is that continuity eventually becomes a by-word for 'boring'.

The dimensions of the room are adequete for stallholders only.
The fact that there are only six of you, and laughing boy with his history of Third Lanark speaks volumes.

'You fail to mention it's got the best bar area bar none at any programme fair in the country'. I don't doubt it, but would it be a wee bit churlish to say you fail to mention it's got the most expensive bar area bar none at any programme fair'.

I've nothing against the current line-up.
I'll always talk to Mr Boulter, I've spoken to Mr Hewitt many a time, and I've got any amount of time for Mr Clarebrough.

We are not being negative. We have made some observations. We have attended and supported the fair for many years and even the afore-mentioned bar. I have recommended the fair to many United collectors and supporters, many of whom have consequently attended themselves, I've no doubt Jimbo has done the same with his lot.

Doesn't it not say anything that a number of forum members who attend have similiar views?

Negative in relation to programme fairs?
I can't think of too many collectors who in the last year or so have travelled to the likes of, Stoke, Stafford, Wolves, Pudsey, leicester, leeds, Lincoln and Sheffield.

Your final paragraph is filled with pompous arrogance. Sharrowblade is a cert for attending? Really?
Maybe..... once upon a time.

Perhaps he wants to scare everyone else off so he can pick some goodies up on the cheap? Really?

And here was me thinking that only dealers resorted to that kind of practice.

.......................oh and Barry

Thanks for the offer of a stall but I don't think anyone's died yet.

[andyfromboston]

I've made the effort to attend this fair from Boston for the last 5 or 6 years now and here's a few of my observations.

Sheffield and the surrounding area is a hotbed for football and as a result collecting, it therefore follows that this event is the premier fair in the area as the small club fairs have gradually fallen by the wayside. This manifests itself in the attendance which is always impressive.

The line up of dealers is impressive BUT for the sake of a breath of fresh air a bigger room to accommodate at least a couple more dealers would be a welcome innovation. If I have one minor issue its that the fair is a little on the 'colloquial' side with with only Dave and Barry veering away from flooding their stall with items from the 3 big local clubs (Blades,Rotherham,Chesterfield......) I know I was talking to collectors from Sunderland and Huddersfield last year and it was their first time......I got the feeling it might be their last.

The event itself has the feel of a jumble sale with a lot of jostling and shoving......its not a pleasant atmosphere to browse in. This isn't a dig at Dave or the stallholders, the fact so many attend make it clear people are happy to attend......no one makes them go! While I can see the argument about cost to dealers surely adding a couple or three more stall holders in a bigger room will offset the extra expense?

I always enjoy my trip to Sheffield, its still one of the best fairs on the calendar, I just think the whole experience could be improved.

[Healing]

Sharrowblade, PM sent,Cheers Pete

[footballprogrammes.com]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for your posts and comments. I’ll tell ya, most fair attendees/organisers from other parts of the Country will be scratching their heads in amazement at tales of packed rooms, tripping over bags etc…its like the late 70s early 80s again!!

Though I hear your grievances, virtually everyone has replied to certain aspects of my piece rather than the look at the whole picture.

Unfortunately its not as simple as ‘move to a slightly bigger room’ – there isn’t one in the Royal Victoria! The only option is the ballroom which is six times bigger and four times more expensive. We tried that six years ago – September 2005. Capacity for 25 dealers – a mere 6 more than at Christmas wanted to come. Attendance: Despite increased advertising advising of the size of fair just 20 more than at Christmas turned up. Result: significant financial loss, ‘morgue like’ atmosphere - a bit like Brentford playing home games at Wembley (no offence Bees fans!) as folk were lost in the vastness of it.

Yes we could move to a new venue, Surfin Jim commented that my refusal to do this was ‘laziness on the organisers part’ – I live within the M25 and could spend all day traipsing around Sheffield looking for a new venue but I am not prepared to do that for the reasons outlined in my earlier post. I have viewed venues in many Cities over the last 20 years and there is surprisingly few and as a ‘new customer’ you pay through the roof – bit like car insurance without the no claims discount. With all due respect we now have 4 dissatisfied collectors which, although double to when I penned my original piece, still represents just 2.5% of the average attendance. I’m a glass half full kind of guy so I am going to take that as a 97.5% satisfaction endorsement.

However, there is nothing stopping someone new setting up a rival Sheffield fair in a different venue implementing all the aspects sharrow, surfin, ann and senior would like to see. This has been floated as imminent on this board by sharrowbarrow I believe(?) but so far failed to materialise. I have often wondered why?

My colleague Barry Swash maybe abrasive on occasions but he hit the nail on the head with his ‘ebay fatties analogy’ The truth is fairs are in the twilight of their existence largely due to ebay. They are becoming a labour of love for dealers who frankly would make more money using the time listing at home than doing a fair. I still enjoy doing them and whilst that remains the case will continue to do so.

MEMO to Sharrowblade: I have no idea who you are but have read your previous posts on this board and very entertaining they are too. I am not trying to be pompous or arrogant but you do speak with such authority on the Sheffield fair topic that it is a fair assumption you have been to many and will be there this year, I certainly hope so. With all due respect, you have made wild and completely untrue statements in the past about why I supposedly keep Sheffield in the Assembley room rather than Ballroom using phrases like ‘I have it on good authority that…… rather than get on my high horse I just smile. What’s good for the goose and all that.

May I close by saying I won’t be posting anymore on the topic, I’ve said my piece. I certainly don’t want to fall out with anyone. Lets face it the fair is just 3 HOURS in a year. It’s a social gathering so lets just enjoy it!!!

[goonerboy]

One thing that everybody should remember is that for a vast majority of collectors its a hobby and something to spend a bit of spare cash...should you be lucky enough to have any.

A lot of people's collections may be dross to a dealer but it is of sentimental rather than investment value. My 70s and 80s and 90s arsenal progs are of no monetary value at all and i would struggle to even give them away for free. Yet they are my formative years of following football and have great sentimental/nostalgic value of going with mates/dad/my sons etc.

And before the mud slinging gets out of hand, you only need to look at any dealer's catalogue and it is probably 80-90% of post mid50s items (?dross?)...even the big dealers.

Re the sheffield fair, I have only been once about six- seven years ago as i happened to be in the area at the time and it was a bit of a scrum but i am not a regular so can't add to that debate. However from a principle perspective there a central issue and that is that several people are pointing out that it does appear to be a room that is too small to accomodate the number of attendees in a civilised manner. Yes people do go and that is good but maybe there are so few fairs in the area (or they are deperate to get out of the house at christmas) that they put up with it. Surely an organiser of an event should be open to considering feedback (even if not palatable) and look at ways of making things better.

I think we should give credit where credit is due and that is to Dave and the others who organise fairs. However the message to Dave and Bazza and others is that it takes two to tango and fairs are for the benefit of collectors as well. So if you do get comments back from whatever forum or mechanism then take them on board rather than get defensive. After all a happy collector results in a happy dealer.

[Auchinleckian]

As somebody who has only recently gone into the programme dealing side of things on a (limited) full time basis it's very interesting to see both sides of the argument.
I wholeheartedly agree about organisers being loyal to the dealers who turn up year after year - they need the security of knowing that if they're going to put a fair on that they're going to be able to have sufficient folk to man the stalls year in, year out.
I wholeheartedly agree with the punters about the "same old faces" though, and it's a very difficult thing to try and balance - getting the folk in through the doors on a regular basis is difficult. Having said that, if the dealers are going back year after year it's beneficial for them to do so, they're not philanthropists.
If the punters are bemoaning the fact that there's not enough room or the same old dealers there's an obvious niche in the market for having at least one more fair in the city, not in competition with the big one, but to compliment it. That's why I mentioned local knowledge and perhaps seeing if any of the local non league sides had facilities to use. If it's viable then organising a fair isn't the hardest job in the world as long as folk remember that the two things that make it work are dealers and happy punters.
Would be more than happy to assist in promoting / advising on running a fair having run them at Blundell Park for a number of years in the 1980's. Would also be happy to take a stall at such a fair....any offers from the Sheffield collectors / dealers?

[Tynie Topics]

Just a couple of observations as a "neutral";

footballprogrammes.com wrote:

With all due respect we now have 4 dissatisfied collectors which, although double to when I penned my original piece, still represents just 2.5% of the average attendance. I’m a glass half full kind of guy so I am going to take that as a 97.5% satisfaction endorsement.

You can only take a 97.5% endorsment if you know that all those who attend the Fair are members of this messageboard, and have contributed to this thread indicating their satisfaction of the staus quo. I would hazard a guess that a minority of them are members, and therefore the four members who have registered their concerns should be taken slightly more seriously rather than mocked.

The dealers on this thread aren't exactly covering themselves in glory here, to me it comes across that fairs and the customers who frequent them are more of an inconvenience to dealers than anything else. Whether that was the intention I don’t know, but that is how it comes across.

As for “getting fat on ebay” I was already fat before ebay was invented, however the point made has a relevance (and debated on here before), some prices quoted by some dealers for some items at Fairs have no basis in reality. It’s generally the same dealers who offer programmes at ridiculous prices on ebay “Buy It Now”. They really haven’t got the message.
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[westyorksnffc]

I have to say, I wasn't overly impressed with Sheffield. I went in December 2009, an hour after the doors had opened and have to agree there wasn't a lot of room at all, and yes, the temperature was just ridiculously hot, your talking to a bloke here who likes holidaying in Turkey in the height of summer, and I appreciate we'd had a lot of snow (so much so that it was like an ice rink outside) but it got stupidly warm in there.

You also struggled to get anywhere near the tables because of the sheer number of people in there and when you did you had dealers thrusting £100+ programmes in your face.

In the last 5 years I've been to the London July fair, the Elland Road fair, the Sheffield fair, and most recently the Pudsey fair, and out of all of those I'd have to put the London and Pudsey fairs up top, plenty of room to move around (and breath!), not too hot, and time to actually look through vendors programmes without someone breathing down my neck because they are too bloody impatient to wait.

Change can be a god thing you know.
_________________
Nottingham Forest Supporters Club
West Yorkshire Branch Secretary

Forest programme guide: www.nottinghamforestprogrammes.weebly.com (a steady working progress, any help or advice gratefully accepted!)

[BAZZABAGGIES]

We keep going round and round at the end of the day, fairs are finnished and takings at Sheffield are not great after all the outlay.
So if someone big enough wants to organise another fair in Sheffield then good luck.
There is a recession on and its well known that Yorkshire folk are careful with their money, most punters at Sheffield come for a good natter and the days of the big spenders are long gone.
The dealers might be the same BUT THE STOCK IS DIFFERENT so stop moaning and stop at home if you dont want to come.

[ForestMick]

BAZZABAGGIES wrote:

We keep going round and round at the end of the day, fairs are finnished and takings at Sheffield are not great after all the outlay. So if someone big enough wants to organise another fair in Sheffield then good luck. There is a recession on and its well known that Yorkshire folk are careful with their money, most punters at Sheffield come for a good natter and the days of the big spenders are long gone. The dealers might be the same BUT THE STOCK IS DIFFERENT so stop moaning and stop at home if you dont want to come.

I have to say Barry, I only really see 1 person moaning on this thread, and it seems to be you! I see customers offering criticism that could be taken on board (which Dave seems to have done). Yet you as a dealer seem to be the one doing the moaning. So, take on board your own comments, and if takings are that poor, stop moaning and stay at home. Before you were a programme dealer, were you headn of customer services for Victor Meldrew's PR agency?!!
_________________
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[surfinjim]

Auchinleckian wrote:

Would be more than happy to assist in promoting / advising on running a fair having run them at Blundell Park for a number of years in the 1980's. Would also be happy to take a stall at such a fair....any offers from the Sheffield collectors / dealers?

John, I have given this serious thought for a good few months, even to the extent of finding a venue. However, a massive uptake in work at my place has taken me away from the idea.

I am going to revisit again after August. I'll keep you informed whether its a starter or not.
_________________
26th December 1979

Bolder, Blackhall, Williamson, Smith, Pickering, Hornsby, King, Johnson, McCulloch, Mellor, Curran.

Scorers; Mellor, King, Curran, Smith (pen)

GODS EVERY ONE OF THEM!

[Tynie Topics]

BAZZABAGGIES wrote:

The dealers might be the same BUT THE STOCK IS DIFFERENT so stop moaning and stop at home if you dont want to come.

A novel approach to attracting customers
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/footballprogrammes/albums

[BAZZABAGGIES]

ForestMick wrote:

BAZZABAGGIES wrote: We keep going round and round at the end of the day, fairs are finnished and takings at Sheffield are not great after all the outlay. So if someone big enough wants to organise another fair in Sheffield then good luck. There is a recession on and its well known that Yorkshire folk are careful with their money, most punters at Sheffield come for a good natter and the days of the big spenders are long gone. The dealers might be the same BUT THE STOCK IS DIFFERENT so stop moaning and stop at home if you dont want to come. I have to say Barry, I only really see 1 person moaning on this thread, and it seems to be you! I see customers offering criticism that could be taken on board (which Dave seems to have done). Yet you as a dealer seem to be the one doing the moaning. So, take on board your own comments, and if takings are that poor, stop moaning and stay at home. Before you were a programme dealer, were you headn of customer services for Victor Meldrew's PR agency?!!

Thank you for one or two personal private messages from faceless cyber warriors.
Silly, stupid, thick Brummie me there was I thinking moaning and complaining were the same thing. Personal attacks on here seem to be one way and aimed at the dealers.
Would complainers please post their name so I can address them personally instead of some Cyber name.. Thank you The Thick Fat Brummie dealer

[ForestMick]

Barry,
My observations are above on the thread, I don't feel the need to hide behind anything.

I was merely pointing out that, as a dealer, surely it is prudent to take on board comments form customers, rather than criticising them. However, it is your choice, as it is your business, and you are obviously rich enough to turn customers away with your excellent customer service skills!
_________________
PLEASE check out my Prostate Cancer UK charity auction page here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1550474568596587/

[Tynie Topics]

BAZZABAGGIES wrote:

Thank you for one or two personal private messages from faceless cyber warriors. Silly, stupid, thick Brummie me there was I thinking moaning and complaining were the same thing. Personal attacks on here seem to be one way and aimed at the dealers. Would complainers please post their name so I can address them personally instead of some Cyber name.. Thank you The Thick Fat Brummie dealer

If there are members of this site sending abusive PM's, then report them to Craig/Admin.
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