Programme prices

[Auchinleckian]

Despite being in an almost deflationary financial period every man and his dog wants a King's ransom for their spare programmes. I responded to a few adverts in Programme Monthly on line for lists to find one joker had programmes listed at £10 for 50-1 to 54-5 issues; £7 for anyhting else from the fifties; £5 for early to mid 60's. Get a grip!!! This forum is also going that way - programmes of very limited value being offered for sale - 60's, 70's,80's and 90's programmes, unless there's a genuine reason for it just don't warrant "offers" Have the courage of your convictions. You'll probably have paid peanuts for them, why expect gold bullion in return?
Sites like this, used to be fairly healthy, now they're ebcoming a vehicle for people tyring to make a quick, and unwarranted, buck.
Programme Monthly is suffering from a lack of advertisers, but prices aren't reflective of the current situation. There's still money to be made folks, if that's what you want, but why choose this site to do it instead of putting them on ebay? The answer is they'll not sell on ebay. Let's make this a site that reflects what's actually going on in the world at the moment, and climb off our imaginary ivory towers.
I hope this posting attracts some controversial replies.

[paulo]

No controversial reply from me. I sell all my spares for 50p to £1, unless its this season or Norwich's 03/04 championship, as I know that is sought after.

I dont see why people over price, esp on here as I hoped that we would all be out to help each other!

If something is over priced I do not buy, simples.

[mancitymark]

paulo wrote:

I sell all my spares for 50p to £1, .

How Much !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By the way I have a Norwich home from that promotion season mate

Its yours if you want - £89.50 plus £18 P&P

[Barrett]

A message to ALL members on this forum and website.

Trying to rip other members off or posting anything for sale at stupid extortionate prices will NOT be tolerated.

If anyone has a problem with a certain member on here trying to rip people off please pm myself or geddon and the appropriate action will be taken.

[ForestMick]

I know of people onhere in the past that have tried to rip me off, as they knew I wasn't that knowledgeable, but they are no longer on here. As I do not really know the value of programmes as well as most, I tend to advertise what programmes I have and ask people what they are worth to them. That seems like the only fair way for someone like me to sell. If nobody wants to buy what I have for sale, then they don't buy, if they want to buy at what I consider to be an unfair price, I don't sell.
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[gfcpaul]

I sell all my spares for 50p + the best postage deal i can arrange,apart from anything else its the need to clear the space they occupy!!!!!!!

[ForestMick]

I can vouch for that Paul, I had a good deal from you.
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[gfcpaul]

Thanks for that Mick.
I think this article also ties in with the pre-order programmes at higher prices i have found it very difficult to get Gillingham away programmes this season,i have been to some games,the club gets some of them but going on to e-bay the prices are certainly far higher than previous seasons,people see these pre-ordered programmes for say £3 + £1.50 postage and try to get the same.Quite a few league 2 clubs still charge £2.50 for their programmes so prices become inflated very quickly.

[ForestMick]

No worries mate. Talking of Gillingham progs, I am still trying to get you one for the game at Notts. Co. Hopefully I should be able to get you one for about £1.50+cost of postage. If not, I'll have to get one through the 'official' outlet, which means it will have to be cover price.
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[grimsbybarralad]

Just seen on e-bay a reprint of the Manchester United V Grimsby Town programme from 1946/47 (first match after WW2). The asking price is £14.99 which I find amzing. The programme reprint was included in a boxed video set called something like "The History of MUFC" produced about 12 years ago. Anyone have a view on whether it's worth that much?

[Auchinleckian]

All programmes are only ever worth what someone is willing to pay for them. Reprints are exactly that, and for the life of me I just can not understand the mentality of anybody bidding for a reprint. If they want to buy one at a fixed price all well and good, as long as it's only a few pennies, but bidding on something that the vendor can knock out at any time is madness. If people reallyw ant these things, do not bid for them. Wait until the unscrupulous twat trying to sell them realises he's not going to even get his outlay back and the buy it now price will have to be set at something realistic. The basic law of supply and demand.

[kenred]

I bought two programmes from The 1963 FA Cup Final Manchester United V leicester City for a Shilling a piece.Both in Mint condition .Should I therefore sell them for 5p ?

[Auchinleckian]

Only if you're prepared to work for the £2 per week you'd probably have earned in 1963.
The posting was about reprints, not genuine collectables. There's a whole world of difference between the two.

[kenred]

In your initial post you state that sellers require a Kings ransom for programmes (not reprints) that "peanuts "were the buying price at the time.
Manchester United programmes the famous "UNITED REVIEW " from the early 50s frequently go for £40 +.On Ebay at the moment 2 are listed in far excess of £40.Other clubs no doubt of that era would bring in similar sums.Of course if one wants an item badly he will pay that .Is it wrong for the seller to ask what he considers a price to be fair ? Debatable of course.The Programme Monthly does give a guideline to prices in respective years,and because a seller asks £10 for a programme from the 50s why does he be labelled a" joker" as you say? If it is for a reprint yes I agree ,but not for a programme from over 50 years ago.As a seller I do try to be fair ,and I must admit over the years as a buyer I have on occasions been as one says been "ripped off".Maybe my own fault perhaps.
However in collecting whether it be programmes,Stamps ,Coins or whatever ,if a person wants the item so desperately,he or she will pay it .
The Seller states the price and he may ,or may not get that figure.
It is a very debatable subject ,on buying ,and selling.My collection of Manchester United programmes,and other 50s English ,and Scottish clubs I would value at around £4000 +,and if I put them all up for sale would I be out of order expecting to receive that figure,or gold bullion as you say ?Yes, I paid on many occasions 2d,3d,and 4d for some of them but it was over 50 years ago.As an Ebay seller,and buyer of several years at the moment I have 100% feedback so I must be doing something right in my transactions.If I sell a programme ,I always offer money back to buyer if not up to the standard as described,but if they pay the price asked ,or bid ,then what am as a seller doing wrong?
I do understand your views ,and you have a point ,but I somewhat disagree
with some of the statements :

[Auchinleckian]

My first posting was about the rip off prices that everybody's looking for programmes nowadays, because everyone thinks they have programmes that ought to be selling for vast amounts of money, instead of their real value.
I mentioned that one person who I replied to an advert in Porgramme Monthly was wanting £10 for all pre 1955 programmes, and £7 for all other 1950's issues. That's not being reasonable, it's a mild from of mugging, and bears absolutley no relation to the real world.

Programme Monthly - they do produce a guide for programme prices, but what you don't seem to take on board is the fact that it's based on what a dealer requires, in order to furbish remuneration for a full time job, not someone selling for extra pocket money on ebay. Some of the dealers concerned don't live in the real world either, with some charging the king's ransom that I mentioned for common or garden programmes. However, the list was produced a few years back, and bears no relation to today's football programme market - and harking back to it being taken from dealer's lists, they are the prices that dealers wish they could obtain for programmes. They'd be turkeys voting for Xmas were they to put smaller amounts in.

Your Manchester United programmes that you mention, are, undoubtedly, colelctable. But you can not, for one moment, tell me that they're worth anything like they were two or three years ago. They're only worth what one person is willing to pay for them, and that situation changes on a daily basis.

I do two or three fairs a year, and I get the same kind of response from certain collectors. Why are you charging that price for such and such a programme when I can buy it on ebay for less? If you want to buy it on ebay for less, do so. If I, and other folks who do fairs, are prepared to keep a stock of collectable programmes for collectors to buy, there needs to be a profit in there somewhere. It doesn't need to be wholly unreasonable, but neither should it be unrealistic. Charging £10 for pre 1955 programmes per se is whoilly unreasonable, and, by the way, there weren't any pre 55 United programmes in there, or pre 55 Leeds, or 54-5 Chelsea programmes, just common or garden items such as Fulham, Brentford, Arsenal, Chelsea, etc. That is a rip off, and it's something that Programme Monthly does not take in to account. It doesn't differentiate between provincial and rural teams, northern and southern ones, and any particular clubs collecting base.

If I was offered 100 odd pre 1955 programmes form such clubs, I'd make a realistic offer for them, and it would be highly unlikely to be abvoe £250. If I was offered a good collection of smaller northern clubs from the same period it would probably be up to three times as much.

Ebay has made a nation of sellers, but it hasn't made them a nation of experts.

[kenred]

I agree with several of your points ,and it appears you concur with several of my views.I am not a dealer ,just an ordinary collector for over 50 years.
For instance I have several Scottish programmes from 1940s and 50s including Third Lanark ,Stranraer,Hibs ,Hearts,St.Mirren,several FA CUP Finals from 1933 to date.Most of these (not the CUP Finals)were bought when I was a schoolboy collector in the late 40s ,early 50s.I obtained most of Scottish by writing to clubs asking for a programme ,and enclosing an SAE.Many english clubs were equally agreeable to send me a surplus item if an SAE was enclosed.If i decided to sell any of the aforementioned then where do I look for a guidline for price ? I deal nowadays mainly with John Dee ,and have used his prices as a marker whenever I sell .However are his prices above or below the standard?.He needs to make a realistic profit I would expect.,and I find him a great chap to deal with.I find John Listers comments on prices very sound in PM ,and again a matter of opinion.I attended a recent Manchester Prog.Fair in Altrincham ,and not one United pre-1955 programme seen there was less than £40,and conditions were variable .Even Man Utd Reserves single sheets from 50s without token ,asking price £14+.So if I buy one at that price ,then if I decide to sell surely I ask the same price.
Again some lesser clubs of the 50s ,and not to offend any supporter of any
those clubs by naming them ,maybe the prices asked are unreasonable .Non -League of that era also ,but some clubs have fantastic prices asked .I wanted a Stanley United (northern league)from 1953,asking price from another dealer
£30.Is that price realistic ,unfair, about average for a rare?item ,or what?
Buying ,and selling is a minefield ,even more so nowadays in the period of austerity .Everyone wants a good deal ,no one wants to be "ripped off"
Ebay isnt always the cheapest in my opinion either ,the recent Carling Cup final was being advertised buy now at £5 above the price for programme bought at Wembley .
your topic is interesting and perhaps controversial,and nobody has an 100%
spot on answer , its down to opinions ,and at the end of the day the contents of ones pocket,or wallet.

[Auchinleckian]

Good debate, this. Agree with you about John Dee, the guy's a proper football fan, and as good a dealer as you could care to do business with.
All prices are relative. The Altrincham Fair always has a good selection of United programmes for obvious reasons - but the dealers take the majority of them home with them because they are priced too high. I think everyone agrees that the golden days of selling football programmes has now long since gone, as far as prices reached are concerned.
The fairs that I do in the north west are very similar to Altrincham, so there's a similar clientele. I work on a very basic assumption, that if I go to a fair I want to sell programmes, not take them all home with me, and they are priced accordingly. I don't need to make a living out of it though so the pressures aren't the same for me. I usually only take 10 or so boxes, and don't take anything post 1970 unless it's a collectable item. Don't see the point in taking programmes that everyone else takes as we'd all be chasing the same pennies.
If I have something for three or four fairs and it doesn't look like selling, it goes on ebay, and I constantly renew a lot of my stock this way. I enjoy doing the fairs for the banter with colelctors and fans, and have been doing them for about 20 odd years now. Have met some wonderful folk in this time, and like full time dealers, have built up quite a considerable knowledge about the subject (also used to run the programme shop at Blundell Park until moving to Scotland in 1991)
There will be a lot of negative equity with collectors thinking that their programmes will one day help out with their pension. Buying at top whack prices doesn't mean that the same prices will be realised when eventually selling on, and the people who made money out of selling their collections did so 4 or 5 years ago. There's no doubt that ebay has made access to programmes a lot easier than it ever was than when dealers only controlled the flow of rare items onto the market. It has also had a detrimental effect on such prices as they are now much more common.

[kenred]

Great topic to arouse controversial views ,and opinions .Lets have some more like this. Excellent topic!