eBay 'pre-order' sellers

[rokerprogz]

There seems to be a growing amount of people selling programmes as 'pre-order'. A couple of weeks before games programmes are being listed with prices around £4 - £5 plus p+p.

Yet another way of ripping of programme collectors!

[Auchinleckian]

There's been endless debate on this subject down the years. Easiest option is not to buy them if you think you're getting ripped off. Others might think that they actually provide a service. If you look at the Premier League, I doubt there is now any club shop / office that will send out a single programme to a collector despite the many requests (let me know if I'm wrong on this please) When I say single, I measure it against large pre booked orders from recognised dealers - and this is a practice that's dying off because everyone and his aunt is now a dealer on ebay.
In the not too distant past a number of clubs had programme sellers around the ground, who would often carry numbers of their teams away programmes for fans who didn't travel, but still wanted the programmes. They would often put 10 or 20 pence extra on, over and above the cost of the programme (say £1) so they would not be out of pocket if they didn't sell them all. You could usually get some discount from the selling club, but not a lot. Nowadays there's nothing.

Look at the simple economics of it. A local dealer / collector flogged programmes outside the ground for years. Always used to have 50 away programmes for each game, costing £1 each, total £50 - minus 10% club discount - meant he had to lay out £45. Manages to sell 40 of them at 20 pence over cover price. Takes in a total of £48, thus making £3 profit.

It's easy to see that if this simple mathematical exercise didn't take place, the dealer wouldn't purchase the programmes in the first place, and the fans would be left without them. There would then be a scarcity of said programme and it would be fetching premium rates on ebay, thereby costing far more than than buying it in the first instance from a dealer who might make a small amount out of it. That, in effect, is what's happening now, so think carefully before having a pop at someone who could be providing a genuine service. Would you expect someone to go and purchase 50 programmes from a Premier League game, outside Old Trafford say, plus all the related items for posting, and not expect them to make any money out of it?? It isn't logical, and nobody in their right mind would privide such a service.

[Barrett]

Auchinleckian, I have seen a certain dealer offering Everton programmes for each home game at £4.50 + £1.50 p+p.

How can you possibly justify that price?

It probably costs around 80p to post out. So £3 cost price plus 80p p+p = £3.80.
Now he sells on eBay for £6 in total. Makes £2.20 profit each programme.

You can order from the programme suppliers or the club shop for cost price (£3) + £1 p+p.

[Auchinleckian]

I'm not justifying the prices he's charging if you look at what I'm saying. What I do say is that he - or others - are providing a service. If you provide a service you expect to be remunerated for the cost of your labour. The crux of the matter appears to be that someone is blatantly profiteering from their exploits, whereas others do provide a good ervice for which they should receive some form of premium over and above the cost of the programme.
Everything, however, is governed by supply and demand. What I expect the person is doing who you're quoting is getting orders a few days before the game, going to the ground for 5 minutes, and coming away again safe in the knowlegde that they've made a nice little earner. That's a totally different approach to the collectors and dealers who provide a genuine service. If people are daft enough to be ripped off that;s up to them. Again, however, I've ehard numerous tales of fans writing to clubs asking for a programme and sending a cheque for it, and postage, never to receive a reply or their cheque back.
Gone are the days when certain clubs had a social conscience and would do this. What the collector needs to do then is to evaluate whether they really need the programme at that price, or can they guarnatee it cheaper at any other source? The answer's probably no, unfortunately.

[rokerprogz]

auchinleckian,

youv'e raised some decent points there ... some that in my hast to post my disgust, I hadn't considered.

Whilst I take on board the idea of providing a service, I'd wager that a fair few of these sellers are not purchasing the programmes to shift on until after they have solid bids / buyers ... cutting out their own personal risk. I don't see these people as dealers.

the supply / demand point is valid enough .. maybe I'm just a bit too naive (although I've been collecting long enough and been stung enough times to know better by now!) when it comes to sellers.

[coolascustard]

Auchinleckian wrote:

I'm not justifying the prices he's charging if you look at what I'm saying. What I do say is that he - or others - are providing a service. If you provide a service you expect to be remunerated for the cost of your labour. The crux of the matter appears to be that someone is blatantly profiteering from their exploits, whereas others do provide a good ervice for which they should receive some form of premium over and above the cost of the programme. Everything, however, is governed by supply and demand. What I expect the person is doing who you're quoting is getting orders a few days before the game, going to the ground for 5 minutes, and coming away again safe in the knowlegde that they've made a nice little earner. That's a totally different approach to the collectors and dealers who provide a genuine service. If people are daft enough to be ripped off that;s up to them. Again, however, I've ehard numerous tales of fans writing to clubs asking for a programme and sending a cheque for it, and postage, never to receive a reply or their cheque back. Gone are the days when certain clubs had a social conscience and would do this. What the collector needs to do then is to evaluate whether they really need the programme at that price, or can they guarnatee it cheaper at any other source? The answer's probably no, unfortunately.

Before the days of ebay I knew a dealer that used to go to matches and buy 20-30 progs,now this perticular match he did his usuall thing.When my mate got there they had sold out everywhere he saw the guy in question and said can I buy a programme cant find one anywhere yes if you have a tenner was his reply.
So do you buy one a little over the odds before hand or wait till after the game hoping it aint a sellout or something unusual has happened and the pay then price.
Which brings me onto as I have posted before just ask each other on here to get you one if they are going its no hardship I for one would do it.

[paulo]

Yes Id be happy to help with Norwich programmes as well.

[Auchinleckian]

Helping folk out is basically what the hobby is about. Like a number of folk I've built up an expertise in a number of areas over the years that I've been collecting and am quite willing to help out fellow collectors wherever possible, as I might just might, get some assitance back. Programme collecting is a cut throat business as it is literally dog eat dog in the scramble to see who can make the most off ebay.
Offers of help are nothing new though, and there is a UK programme collectors's club run by John Litster, the editor of Programme Monthly that has been providing such a service for years. There's no point in duplicating that facility, but perhaps if the Forum can set up a seperate section, whereby members can advise whether or not they'll provide such a service for collectors at their home clubs, it could do away with the need for having to deal with people who are only in the hobby to exploit?
It would be hugely beneficial if people could pre-order when the fixture lists come out in the summer? Not being a modern day collector I wouldn't know, but I think this Forum could provide a very important service here, and perhaps generate extra members via the publicity?

[ForestMick]

I totally agree with the remarks you make, which is why I have tried to help several people out on here with Notts Co./ Forest progs, as well as being the right thing to do, you'd like to think they will return the favour in the future. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, that is what this forum is about to me, and that is what attracted me here and made me stay.
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[foxes1]

I am always willing if req'd to get current season Leicester homes and possibly some aways and sell them at face value with a £1.00 post/packing charge, to collectors on here.

Think what you will find that people who list as pre-order on Ebay, basically are paying a listing fee and also a fee for Paypal which will always be built into the cost, so charges soon mount up.

[pastpirate]

Same as foxes I can get any Bristol Rovers home programme and send it on for cover price plus £1.00 p&p.
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