Premier Academy's - What have they ever done for Us?

[sharrowblade]

After the recent clamour for a more youthful English national side, which I think the majority would agree, I couldn't help but look through a couple of seasons of, Home and away for Sheffield United in the premier academy. the top level of youth football in this country. The seasons were 2001-2 & 2002-3, The age groups U17s & U19s which would mean by now these players would be considered in their prime 24 to 27 ish.

So what did they produce:

Brian Howard, Matt Mills, Neil Mellor, Kieran Richardson, Phil Bardsley, Chris Eagles, Nicky Hunt, Stewart Downing, Ross Turnbull, David Wheater, Jon Stead, David Mirfin, Nicky Maynard, Micheal Dawson, James Perch, Drew Talbot, Richard Wood, Lee Camp, Tom Huddlestone, Micheal Chopra, Steven Taylor, Bradley Orr, James Milner, Aaron Lennon, Matt Kilgallon, Grant Leadbitter, Joey Barton, Tyrone Mears, Andy Wilkinson, Kris Commons, Mark Yeates, Phil Ifil, Jason Shackell, Danny Guthrie, Frazer Campbell, Billy Sharp, Jonathen Forte.

I may have missed the odd one out but basically this is it.

I don't think even Cloughie could have built an England team with
that lot

Some decent players, but how many are international standard?

For me, the two most startling facts for me are how few have actually regularly appeared in the premier league, and the contibution of the big clubs (Man Utd, Everton, Liverpool etc is virtually nothing (I can't include Arsenal in this as we didn't play them)

I know it's just a couple of seasons I looked through while the little uns nodded off but this era should have been producing the foundation of today's England squad.

Does anybody think the Academy's have pulled their weight when it comes to producing players of a suitable standard?

[stodin]

I think I get what point you are trying to make but is it really the academies fault if the players they have are simply not good enough?

Non league football is packed with ex-academy players who were not good enough to make it in the pro game, I wouldnt blame the academies for a players lack of ability.

If a player is good enough he will make it to the top, there are relatively few examples of players being released and then making it in the big time. For every example you can think of I can give you a thousand young players who prove my point.

I would imagine that almost every player who has played for England in the last 8 years has come through an academy at some point. in the last 12 months there have been 14 players who have played for, or been called up by England that fit into your age category, is that a good or bad ratio?

From your list of 38 players
9 have played full international football including one for Jamacia, 1 for Barbados, 1 for Scotland and 1 for Ireland.
14 have played Under 20 or Under 21 international football.
I have too much time on my hands but that doesnt sound too bad to me.

I have a feeling that this thread could go in the direction of foreign players stifling the chances of English players making the grade. I dont buy that as an excuse for a poor England team.

Italy banned foreigners between 1964 and 1980 to help the National team and it did nothing for them, quite the opposite in fact as the records for the Italian national team show.

World Cup
1966 - Out in round 1
1970 - Runners up
1974 - Out in round 1
1978 - Semi Finalists
After the ban
1982 - Winners
1990 - 3rd
1994 - Runners up
1998 - Quarter finals
2006 - winners
They won it in 1934 and 1938

In the Euros they did even worse
1964 - Did not qualify
1968 - Champions
1972 - Did not qualify
1976 - Did not qualify

[sharrowblade]

"If a player is good enough he will make it to the top"

Sorry Stodin mate, I can't agree with that, when I was a kid back in Sheffield in my age group, I can only think of two lads who made it as pro footballers one was Chris Beaumont who went onto play for the likes of Stockport & Chesterfield respectively and Jamie Hoyland who went onto play for United & Bury. I know Chris (I could never catch him) and he was a latecomer signed from Denaby United for Stockport. Jamie played for one of the leading junior sides in Sheffield, Throstles, I used to mark him at corners sometimes, at the age of 12 he was 2 ft bigger than me and about 4 stone heavier, his physical presence gave him a huge advantage over the other lads, and yet I could have named dozens of lads who were better footballers, but because they hadn't matured physically at that age they were never given an opportunity.

Right or wrong as the system stands now the academies are an key component in the whole process, the top level of youth football in this country, the transition if you like between schoolboy and professional football. Personally, I don't think they've heralded the bright new dawn that they were intended to.

Community wise the Academies are great, I've taken my boys to Sheff Utd's Academy during school holidays and they love it. I certainly, don't blame the academies solely for the failure of English football at international level, they are just one in a long list of reasons, one which I think we could argue all day about, after all we've been failing since the early 70s, but the Academies aren't exactly producing the talent they should be.

The whole system needs to change from the top at the FA, through to the professional clubs, to the bottom at grass roots (schools & Junior football), and it needs to work in tandem.

As for the foreign issue, to dismiss it would be foolish. I'm not for a total ban but there should be a limit. You quote Italy, today 47% of players in Serie A are not Italian. When they won the world cup it was something like 25%. Increases like that isn't going to help the Italians produce young talent. How many talented youngsters become disillusioned and lost to the game when the odds already against them to actually 'make it' become nigh on impossible.

Talking foreign issues but slightly off topic, I met a load of welsh rugby lads in Tenerife a number of years ago when welsh rugby was in the doldrums. As it happens one of them was ranked 5th in his position in Wales, he was aged 22 but he had continually been overlooked for selection to the international squads because the welsh had started to bring in southern hemisphere players with remote ancestral heritage (2 of which apparently had just been placed in-front of him in the pecking order for his position). He was seriously disillusioned and considering retiring.

In football, how many English youngster's feel like that?
Because, unfortunately once these kids and their potential is lost, they remain lost.

[stodin]

I would guess most of us have stories about mates or relatives who were better than some of the pro footballers that made it. This could be a combination of a lot of things, lucky breaks, one player improves whilst the other one doesnt, one player is dedicated and dosent go out drinking whilst the other player does.... its all what ifs. If the other players were better than the ones that made it they would eventually be found but where are they? There are no unfound Wayne Rooney's playing in non league football.

My brother was miles better than Steve Chettle when they were both 14 playing for Alderman Derbyshire School. Chettle went to Forest my brother went to Notts, Chettle had the dedication and determination to make it as a pro my brother enjoyed being out with his mates too much. Jason Harbottle played in the same school team and was probably better than them both, he played non league football.

My mate played centre half against Emile Heskey who was a monster when he was 13, my mate marked him out of the game and made him look foolish. They played again the following year and Heskey scored 4 goals making my mate look foolish. Heskey improved, my mate didnt.

Nothing to do with academies in my opinion, as I said if you are good enough you will rise to the top

[James]

stodin wrote:

Italy banned foreigners between 1964 and 1980 to help the National team and it did nothing for them, quite the opposite in fact as the records for the Italian national team show.

I don;t think banning foreign players completley is the answer i just think that it should be limited to ones who will bring something to the game in this country, look at players like Zola and Bergkamp, pure skill, loved the game and were role models to the kids by the way they conducted themselves on the pitch, but look at some of the other foreign players in this country:

Vedran Corluka, plays for the team i support Spurs, i don;t rate him at all, and find it incredibly difficult to figure out why we persist with him, when i feel that there are british lads out there who could do the same if not better job than he can
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