Norwich current season - 108 pages! |
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derby1884 Forum Moderator
Joined: 05 Aug 2012 Posts: 3527 Location: the very western edge of Aberdeen
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Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:57 pm
Post subject: Norwich current season - 108 pages! |
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Just reading through the current season Norwich v Derby issue - quality issue, plenty to read, not overpriced (for these days), well designed.
But - at 108 pages in length, I just shake my head.
Is this really what supporters want? Is it really what collectors want? By my maths, a complete season of Norwich homes would be 2,484 pages in length and that's one hell of a filing demand. And a fair percentage of those pages would be corporate marketing repeated in every issue.
Is it just me? Wouldn't a simple 12/16 page effort costing a quid not be more sensible?
If programmes are increasing in size to try and combat the perceived threat from instantly accessible social media then this modus operandi is beyond me.
From the current season issues I've seen, I do get the feeling that clubs are struggling to fill the space allocated at times. There's an awful lot of space filler around. More than previous seasons.
Any thoughts? Or am I alone in this?! _________________ http://www.flickr.com/photos/derby1884/sets/ |
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DySporting
Joined: 20 May 2015 Posts: 340
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:42 am
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Norwich win programme of the year time and time again but that size is ridiculous as is a 12-16 pages programme. Fleetwood do that and I won’t touch it even at £1- it’s rubbish. A decent programme between 48 and 72 pages is ideal - £2-3 depending on size. |
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pompeypete Forum Moderator
Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Posts: 1095
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:43 am
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Spot on Steve........
Some of your "big words"..........are beyond me !!!!
_________________ RESPECT..................
Flickr pages in the process of closing......
Happy to forward any info on Pompey... |
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sellsell39
Joined: 19 Nov 2011 Posts: 807 Location: Needham market
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DySporting
Joined: 20 May 2015 Posts: 340
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:34 pm
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Derby day soon... Could be a tasty Carrow Road encounter |
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derby1884 Forum Moderator
Joined: 05 Aug 2012 Posts: 3527 Location: the very western edge of Aberdeen
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:08 pm
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Quote: |
Fleetwood do that and I won’t touch it even at £1 |
Not seen that issue - just out of interest, what does it omit that you consider necessary?
Genuine question, I really am just curious. _________________ http://www.flickr.com/photos/derby1884/sets/ |
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Flaming Pie
Joined: 26 Nov 2016 Posts: 923
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:26 pm
Post subject: Norwich current season- 108 pages! |
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On the subject of programmes, l know there was a paper shortage after the war, but why were Spurs ( compared to other top clubs) ) 1950s early 60s programmes printed on such poor quality paper? |
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DySporting
Joined: 20 May 2015 Posts: 340
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:33 pm
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Personally I like the features, match photos, stats. I tend to read some a lot of what is in the programmes (adverts aside) Considering there are about 8 pages of adverts which are a necessity the Fleetwood programme basically has nothing in it except a team list/adverts and a couple of basic features. It’s the only programme which I won’t get. |
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derby1884 Forum Moderator
Joined: 05 Aug 2012 Posts: 3527 Location: the very western edge of Aberdeen
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Norwich current season- 108 pages! |
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Flaming Pie wrote: |
On the subject of programmes, l know there was a paper shortage after the war, but why were Spurs ( compared to other top clubs) ) 1950s early 60s programmes printed on such poor quality paper? |
I don't know but, given they were using the large 4 page format as far back as the 1920s, perhaos it found favour with the home fans? People are, as a rule, creatures of habit.
Supporters can be quite quirky - everyone hated The Ram in the 70s with the exception of Derby fans who loved it! _________________ http://www.flickr.com/photos/derby1884/sets/ |
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derby1884 Forum Moderator
Joined: 05 Aug 2012 Posts: 3527 Location: the very western edge of Aberdeen
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:07 pm
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DySporting wrote: |
Personally I like the features, match photos, stats. I tend to read some a lot of what is in the programmes (adverts aside) Considering there are about 8 pages of adverts which are a necessity the Fleetwood programme basically has nothing in it except a team list/adverts and a couple of basic features. It’s the only programme which I won’t get. |
Fair comment. 50% advertising is a bit much regardless of whether a programme is 12 pages or 112 pages.
I just feel that a "programme", per se, should be something that aids the owner in watching/following what's in front of them. Much as a theatre programme gives the cast members, a background of the play/musical on show and, perhaps, details of what's coming up at the venue, a football programme should identify who's out on the field, give some background as to the relevance of the game on the day and put that in some sort of historical perspective. Plus, of course, a record of how the home club is progressing that season.
That could easily be encompassed within 16 ad-free pages for a reasonable price.
Expanding the publication to anything up to 108 pages with extraneous content turns the "programme" into something else entirely.
I think behavioural science comes into play here, too. Buy a 108 page programme at a match and you're more likely to quickly skim through it, subconsciously realising you're not going to have time to read everything (at the stadium).....a concise 16 page issue and the opposite behaviour arises.
Maybe buyers prefer the greater number of pages. For all I know, clubs sell more than ever. I'll continue to axquire Derby H/A but I live in hope that one day we'll all go back to something more manageable! _________________ http://www.flickr.com/photos/derby1884/sets/ |
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Dorking
Joined: 05 Feb 2010 Posts: 2414
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Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:29 am
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Southampton's last night is 84 pages for £4
Lots of lovingly written historical/looking back type articles by fans (probably who charge the club nothing and do it for the love). Decent programme, but do think all clubs should try and do it for £3, which I think very few Prem clubs do (Chelsea spring to mind as a £3 effort) |
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Flaming Pie
Joined: 26 Nov 2016 Posts: 923
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Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:13 am
Post subject: Norwich current season- 108 pages! |
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Derby, with regard to the Spurs programmes, perhaps the producers and the club thought of them as just bits of paper that would soon be dumped? They must have cost a lot less to produce. Truly ephemeral products, that were never going to end up as sought after collectors items. As we all know, a lot of great stuff just ended up in the bin . I was talking to someone recently who does a lot of building repair jobs in the New Brighton/ Wallasey area . You can guess what l have told him to keep a lookout for! I wish l still had my Beatles’ plastic guitar( it was the large model) in its cardboard box. Where did that end up😪 |
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Auchinleckian Forum Moderator
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 Posts: 4352
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Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:17 am
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WBA won this year's POTY in PM because of the way they used fewer pages to much greater effect than the clubs who had immeasurably large issues. Three teams, Leeds, Norwich and Preston had programmes of 100 pages or more and none of them made the top three. Why have over 100 pages, as Norwich do, and then subject the readers to 31% adverts? If they'd had the same ratio of adverts as the winners, WBA, Norwich would have finished runners up to them.
Some of the programmes from the third tier, which am currently reviewing, are of an extremely high standard. |
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CanaryHonestMan
Joined: 23 Feb 2015 Posts: 40
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:04 am
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Have been meaning to reply to this thread for a while, so better late than never...
Of the 108 pages against Derby, 26 were for external advertising with a further four promoting club activities - a ratio which newspapers can now only dream of!
But as for the rest of it, it's all just so, well, bitty. It's over-designed - and I say this as someone who used to work in the newspaper world - and its format seems to be based on magazine-size pages, so as a result actual content tends to be very small. There's very little in there which I don't already know, and very few of the contributors (although keen) are what I would call skilled writers. Most emphasis these days would appear to go on the cover art. The club doesn't use its programme as a vehicle to deliver unique information any more - who needs a manager's column the day after a widely-reported pre-match press conference or a column from the club's head of media commenting on what has already been reported?
By the way, the cost of the City programme has been cut from previous seasons' £3.50 to £3, but possibly this is to try to drive up sales. The budget must also have been reduced, since in the past professional journalists have contributed copy whereas now it's all willing amateurs.
To be honest, I only keep modern programmes because - like everyone else, I guess - I have issues from just about every game I've ever been to. It's telling, though, that where I sit - upper River End tier, if you're interested - you don't see many people reading the programme before, during or after games. I would agree with others that a slimmed-down, cheaper production would be preferable, but I think it's too late to be having this debate now - people are more interested now in their phones than the printed word.
Two final points about sales - 1) for this Sunday's derby game there's a fundraising bid for a supporters' initiative which will see the programme increased to £4, with £1 per copy going to this scheme, as well as a special scarf which will again raise £1 per sale for the cause. If the club later announces how much is raised it will be a rare chance to gauge how many programmes are actually sold these days. I'll report back.
2) Unless it looks like there is going to be a sell-out I often don't bother getting a programme on the day and pick them up later. Over the past couple of years the clubs has sold them off cheaply at the end of the season - and also used to stock recent away issues. In 2018/19 this has all stopped. No away issues, and current programmes are no longer on show in club shops any more. They are either stashed away somewhere, or - and this is quite feasible - quickly pulped. Either way, they are plainly not worth valuable retail space to the club. As with newspapers, there will come a point when everything will go online only. In the age of the smartphone and enhanced club website it can't be any more than five years. |
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Auchinleckian Forum Moderator
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 Posts: 4352
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:32 am
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Have just finished the programmes from the First Division, and in the main was very pleasantly surprised with quite a lot of them as they had imaginative and well written articles instead of opting for the more generic approach.
One thing is noticeable though and that is the amount of advertising in some of them - even up to 40% in some cases. I assume this is purely a business decision to assist with staying in a division that will have some mega salaries abounding in it. The big difference in advertising is the amount of local advertisers. In the Premiership, with odd exceptions like Burnley, the advertising is for national ad global companies. In this division it's obviously more local.
The amount of advertising does have an adverse affect on the marking due to the matrix I devised for scoring each programme, but some programmes with both heavy advertising and excellent articles have scored strongly in Value for Money as I think it's much better to articles that inform and educate in fewer pages than to fill larger issues with dross. It's been an interesting job - although time consuming - and am looking forward to the Second Division programmes next. |
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seand
Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 839 Location: Dublin
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Auchinleckian Forum Moderator
Joined: 21 Nov 2008 Posts: 4352
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Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:10 pm
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I'm bang up to date me. Third Division is the First Division! |
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