Football Programmes Centre

Following on from the Staceys post re: Credit Cards
AlbumAlbum   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   My Wants ListMy Wants List   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
Following on from the Staceys post re: Credit Cards
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Football Programme Forum Index -> Upcoming Sporting Auctions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Fishy



Joined: 07 Jun 2011
Posts: 1217

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:20 pm 
Post subject: Following on from the Staceys post re: Credit Cards
Reply with quote

Tooveys commission prices for their auction on 23rd January:

Buyer’s Premium 29.4% (including VAT @ 20%) of the hammer price. Lots purchased online via the-saleroom.com will attract an additional charge of 6% (including VAT @ 20%) of the hammer price.

Guess who won't be bidding on anything from there.............. Shocked
_________________
Millwall league AWAYS wanted
45/6 Newport; Swansea; Leicester.
47/8 Coventry.
48/9 Newport.
49/0 Walsall; Exeter.
50/1 Port Vale.
51/2 Port Vale 1/5.
52/3 Swindon.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Wants List
Auchinleckian
Forum Moderator


Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 4352

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:07 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

They're shooting themselves in the foot there, those kinds of prices are unsustainable and bordering on theft.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dorking



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 2414

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:25 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

Ridiculous level of add-ons! More than a third on top if using the-saleroom!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
New Forest



Joined: 05 Jun 2017
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:28 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

I can understand why the Government want to do away with the surcharge on Credit Cards. What amazes me is how people react to it. If you pay by Debit Card then you avoid any extra charges. If you use a Credit Card you still pay extra unless you pay off the lot at the end of the month.

I am annoyed that the auction houses do impose such high commissions. But, it is the same for everyone. If you do not want to use a particular auction house it will result in lower hammer prices, which could be good news for the bidder. That may mean I obtain rare programmes for less than I might have done.

It won't stop me from bidding on items I need. I can also take in the extra costs when deciding what to bid.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sharrowblade
Forum Moderator


Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 3596
Location: Beautiful Downtown Bramall Lane

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:28 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

Still can't see any justification for having a buyer's premium.
_________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sharrowblade/sets
A Sheffield United Programme guide
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Wants List
slightfold



Joined: 13 Oct 2009
Posts: 593

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:06 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

I agree with Sharrowblade. The buyer's commission crept in and then once accepted, crept up. This was a way of auctioneers being paid twice! If you are selling you could lose getting on for half of the amount bid once both the seller's and buyer's charges are added together and taken from the total selling price! Obviously auctioneers will point out the need for these fees to provide the service they do, yeah! Now some are looking to ratchet up prices even more than the actual cost to cover the money 'lost' for on credit card commissions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Wants List
Tynie Topics



Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Posts: 3508

PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:15 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

sharrowblade wrote:
Still can't see any justification for having a buyer's premium.


There's none at all, the cost should be borne by the vendor.
_________________
https://www.flickr.com/photos/footballprogrammes/albums
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Wants List
amazorblade



Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:25 am 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

If there is no buyers premium then no-one will sell items at auction. There would be no money in it for the vendor.

If you use Tooveys example above - an item sold for £100 would net the vendor £74 (£8 lotting fee and £18 sale fees (15% + vat). The purchaser would pay and additional £35.40 (29.4% plus £6 saleroom). If you put that cost onto the vendor , whos going to put up an item for sale at £100 to net £38.60?

At the end of the day this all boils down to knowing what you will pay to the auction house before you bid and adjust your maximum bids accordingly.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail My Wants List
TheMusic



Joined: 13 Aug 2011
Posts: 533

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:14 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

That's only if the current number of auction houses should be maintained though, no?

For example, if there were fewer auction houses, those still in existence could take on more business, pass some of that profit onto buyers by cutting their premiums and thereby improve their image and presumably attract more regular and semi-regular customers in the future.

As it is, isn't it just a case of too many auction houses trying to get their slice of the pie by exploiting the limited number of collectors and in the process simply causing more harm to the market?

Of course, in any walk of life, one can say "well, you know the rules in advance", but does that mean those rules should stay like that, to the detriment of collectors and sometimes vendors too?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CodeXIII



Joined: 07 Oct 2010
Posts: 275
Location: St Helens

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:26 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

and another reason why Ebay will be around to mop up casual big ticket item buyers and sellers like me.
there's no way im paying 30% more for an item that i can potentially buy online without any fees apart from postage.
Yes, i might have to wait a while for the nuggets to appear on Ebay but that's my choice.

They're cutting their own throats. Bizarre!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheSorter!



Joined: 07 May 2016
Posts: 198

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:56 pm 
Post subject: following on
Reply with quote

What about Sheffield Auction Gallery charging £12 to put one programme in an envelope!! Postage extra! Shocked An absolute con!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sharrowblade
Forum Moderator


Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 3596
Location: Beautiful Downtown Bramall Lane

PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:43 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

amazorblade wrote:
If there is no buyers premium then no-one will sell items at auction. There would be no money in it for the vendor.

If you use Tooveys example above - an item sold for £100 would net the vendor £74 (£8 lotting fee and £18 sale fees (15% + vat). The purchaser would pay and additional £35.40 (29.4% plus £6 saleroom). If you put that cost onto the vendor , whos going to put up an item for sale at £100 to net £38.60?

At the end of the day this all boils down to knowing what you will pay to the auction house before you bid and adjust your maximum bids accordingly.


No buyers premium nobody sells at auction.
Not sure about this. How did they go on before this was introduced?

The purchaser would pay and additional £35.40 (29.4% plus £6 saleroom). If you put that cost onto the vendor , whos going to put up an item for sale at £100 to net £38.60?
Don't think anyone is suggesting the amount that the purchaser currently pays as well as the vendors fee's should be all heaped upon the vendor.

At the end of the day this all boils down to knowing what you will pay to the auction house before you bid and adjust your maximum bids accordingly.
Just because that's the way it is,.... doesn't make it right, or actually explains why it is common practice
_________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sharrowblade/sets
A Sheffield United Programme guide
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Wants List
goonerboy



Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1047

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:55 am 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

I guess another issue in this debate is what auction houses sell. I often look at sale results and most auctions end up only selling around 65% of items. Maybe they need to be more particular about the items they sell. If they increased the percentage of sold items then they would have more scope to reduce fees but still make money.

With costs of auction buying going higher and higher then hammer prices will surely start to get negatively impacted. Of course the rare items will still go for good money because there are enough buyers who will pay what it takes but there are a lot of more routine items or those plethora of job lots for which there will be a downward shift.

In general buyers premium is an unbelievable and outrageous concept. Its like going to a high street store and then at the counter being told you have to pay 25-30 % more for the privilege of buying it. Let's hope buyers vote with their feet until some decency sets in.

Maybe eBay is not perfect but at least buyers have a straightforward outcome. You pay a price for the item and that's it. No extras or costs which just go into a third party pocket.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Wants List
Flaming Pie



Joined: 26 Nov 2016
Posts: 923

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:13 pm 
Post subject: Following on from Staceys
Reply with quote

Couldn't agree more goonerboy .Auction houses are really only for ultra - rare items. I have decided to learn this year how to sell on Ebay. I placed some items recently in an auction house not far from where l live.They sold for just under £200.When the cheque came( after auction costs ) it was for £83. Of course, it was up to me to check all of these costs out before placing them with them, but didn't expect this level of fees . l wish they would spell this out more clearly to viewers on the TV auction programmes. "Here we have got Betty, who has just sold her late husband's collection of football programmes for £300. After auction costs we work it out that Betty will receive just over £232". Oh yeah!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
New Forest



Joined: 05 Jun 2017
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:46 pm 
Post subject: Re: Following on from Staceys
Reply with quote

Flaming Pie wrote:
Couldn't agree more goonerboy .Auction houses are really only for ultra - rare items. I have decided to learn this year how to sell on Ebay. I placed some items recently in an auction house not far from where l live.They sold for just under £200.When the cheque came( after auction costs ) it was for £83. Of course, it was up to me to check all of these costs out before placing them with them, but didn't expect this level of fees . l wish they would spell this out more clearly to viewers on the TV auction programmes. "Here we have got Betty, who has just sold her late husband's collection of football programmes for £300. After auction costs we work it out that Betty will receive just over £232". Oh yeah!


Your thinking is all wrong. You use an auction house for rare items only, where you hope to get the best possible prices For run-of-the-mill items use eBay. The rubbish goes into eBay BIN.

Some top auction houses only accept items above a minimal amount. From your figures given the commission seems to be over 50%! Either I am out of touch or you should use another auction house. At least name them so the rest of us can avoid them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flaming Pie



Joined: 26 Nov 2016
Posts: 923

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:57 pm 
Post subject: Following on
Reply with quote

I think l said auction houses are really for rarer items, eBay for lesser items.Saying that , some incredible prices recently on eBay for Scottish programmes! I found a statement for a recent auction that l put items into.Here it is::
Sale proceeds £150
Less commission £48
FlSC £32-40
Net amount £69
Brought forward (GS300317) £7-20
Total due to vendor £62-40

So l was hit for over 50% costs.My own fault, l should have checked this out.
To be fair to some non - specialist auction houses, they don't really know the value of lots of sports items , so instead of advising you that they are not really worth putting in because of auction costs, they give them a go. Perhaps where you live you are not hit for such high costs? Not prepared to name .Haven't got the funds. Even when you are right, you can be found wrong in libel cases!


Last edited by Flaming Pie on Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
martino



Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 2163
Location: Beautiful downtown Goostrey, Cheshire

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:30 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

On top of the seller's commission a lot of Auction Houses now charge for other things, e.g. a lotting fee, photograph(s) for The Saleroom / Catalogue so the costs can rise rapidly.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pete’s Picture Palace
Forum Moderator


Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 4215
Location: Wallington Surrey

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:05 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

Just to say and in contrast to all the above, Sporting Memorys are listing a friend of mine's cricket autograph book with no charge whatsoever and a 15% commission on sale - no sale, no fee.

Can't ask for fairer than that and credit where it's due.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Wants List
pafcprogs



Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 992
Location: Westerham Kent

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:08 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

I have always been treated very well by Chris and his team at Sportingold...as buyer and seller...
_________________
Currently disposing of my collection so please email any wants lists to [email protected].
Most Plymouth post 1959 but plenty of others including reserves, friendlies, Cup Finals Internationals and Club issues, handbooks and other sports.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
martino



Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Posts: 2163
Location: Beautiful downtown Goostrey, Cheshire

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:22 pm 
Post subject:
Reply with quote

Pete’s Picture Palace wrote:
Just to say and in contrast to all the above, Sporting Memorys are listing a friend of mine's cricket autograph book with no charge whatsoever and a 15% commission on sale - no sale, no fee.

Can't ask for fairer than that and credit where it's due.


Agreed, Peter. We must be careful not to criticize all Auction Houses for profiteering.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
| More
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Football Programme Forum Index -> Upcoming Sporting Auctions All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum