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We sometimes lose our way at times perhaps
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manchesterunitedman1



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Posts: 2446
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:27 pm 
Post subject: We sometimes lose our way at times perhaps
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Quite a few of us now have our own web sites, some are flickr and some are not but not many of us are actually going out and showing anything, even those who do not have any www, so I thought rather than just show the links to the website,why not from time to time just show a few new items that have been uploaded. Still too many collectors hoard and never show anyone anything-I pity them as there is no pleasure in keeping it all locked away.

I just wanted to show a few bits and pieces that I have uploaded this past few days, all a little different and nothing that has anyone running to their bank manager looking to take out a massive loan.

All of these items cost money, but at prices I felt were sensible and reasonable and more importantly are just more pieces of the jigsaw that make up a collection., it is important to say that it is not a case of look what I have got and going out to look to compete[personally I do not need to inform anyone mine is bigger than theirs-and if theirs is bigger than mine who gives a hoot-thing is they do] but showing what there is out there is also educational as I see lots of items I have not seen before and I think I wonder if there is something like that for MU??

Any fool can rush out and spend a fortune on a programme or a shirt or whatever and I have also been guilty of doing that too but in some sort of a defence if it goes in someway to build up a bit more knowledge and show what was around way back then and you do not see many of those items about then if you can afford it, well my view has been never hesitate get it or you may well regret it[I have been there and done that a few times for sure]

so as I said a few little items that I took a fancy too-some quirky some not...... and in no particular order


https://flic.kr/p/Ypk34i
https://flic.kr/p/216q5pq
https://flic.kr/p/DgiBmj
https://flic.kr/p/218wosm
https://flic.kr/p/ZiPADm
https://flic.kr/p/DgiDbb and this next image is the reverse side https://flic.kr/p/ZiQpdo

https://flic.kr/p/216pumf
https://flic.kr/p/21bmCKR
https://flic.kr/p/218wow9 and this next image is the team centre pages
https://flic.kr/p/D5hcq1
https://flic.kr/p/CH5B29
https://flic.kr/p/YWQ8Kf
https://flic.kr/p/YWQ7SU
https://flic.kr/p/21p8xWF

Yes I also added a few pre-war programmes as well recently onto the site but am not featuring them, the rest are all thrown together into some eclectic mix-as for me it looks less regimented and as there are different categories then if you just want to look at the old programmes you can just go to it and do that.

Hopefully this thread is taken in the right spirit Wave
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Last edited by manchesterunitedman1 on Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:28 pm; edited 2 times in total
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littlewiggy



Joined: 07 Apr 2013
Posts: 1437
Location: Newport

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:00 pm 
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Wonderful!

That first image sends a shiver down your spine Leslie.
What an historic, yet haunting item that is.

One of the lads on there, Kenny Morgan, played for my team in the mid-1960s, and famously scored five in our 7-0 routing of Lincoln City in Oct '64, although he always insisted he actually scored six that day!

(No County player has scored five in a league game since btw, we've had a few 4s but no 5s)

His name was always spelled "Morgans" with an "s" but Ken said it was actually "Morgan" - yet his brother always used "Morgans."
Go figure eh, as our American chums say!
So that's as clear as mud.

Lastly, he had the famous painting of that 'last line up' hung proudly on his living room wall until he sadly passed away in 2012. Here is a photo of him in front of it a few years before, in 2005 ... along with another of him (with his wife Stephanie) holding the programme from that day he scored five versus the Imps ...









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manchesterunitedman1



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:19 pm 
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what a great post wiggy and two great photos as well.

He was never the same player or man after the crash and you can certainly understand why as he had only recently arrived at United from Swansea, his confidence and the harrowing experience for such a young man had severely affected him and he needed to get away to revive his career hence his move in 1961 to Newport County.

Makes you think about Bobby Charlton and how he as a youngster also managed to deal with it all and go on to become world famous, I suppose a lot of that happened because he was such a gifted lad and although at first he turned his back on the game his Mother persuaded him along with Jimmy Murphy to come back and help them fight back.

Ken Morgans was involved heavily with the formation of the former Manchester United players association that started in the 1980's and was a regular visitor to Old Trafford throughout his life. Wave
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1000's more images to be uploaded-from the days of Newton Heath to the present. To view the latest uploads go to www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/

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Flaming Pie



Joined: 26 Nov 2016
Posts: 197

PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:24 pm 
Post subject: We sometimes lose our way at times perhaps
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Fascinating stuff Leslie. United ,pre-first world war, has always interested me. Surely a film should be made about the life of Billy Meredith. Probably footballs' first superstar,,he helped to set up the Players' Union and was involved in many scrapes with the football establishment..By all accounts, he appears to have been a fantastic footballer.An early 20th century George Best, without the drinking. Apparently Billy was teatotal.
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littlewiggy



Joined: 07 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:34 pm 
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manchesterunitedman1 wrote:
what a great post wiggy and two great photos as well.

He was never the same player or man after the crash and you can certainly understand why as he had only recently arrived at United from Swansea, his confidence and the harrowing experience for such a young man had severely affected him and he needed to get away to revive his career hence his move in 1961 to Newport County.

Makes you think about Bobby Charlton and how he as a youngster also managed to deal with it all and go on to become world famous, I suppose a lot of that happened because he was such a gifted lad and although at first he turned his back on the game his Mother persuaded him along with Jimmy Murphy to come back and help them fight back.

Ken Morgans was involved heavily with the formation of the former Manchester United players association that started in the 1980's and was a regular visitor to Old Trafford throughout his life. Wave



I didn't know that, but it's true, United was indeed always "his team" Leslie.
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manchesterunitedman1



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:19 pm 
Post subject: Re: We sometimes lose our way at times perhaps
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Flaming Pie wrote:
Fascinating stuff Leslie. United ,pre-first world war, has always interested me. Surely a film should be made about the life of Billy Meredith. Probably footballs' first superstar,,he helped to set up the Players' Union and was involved in many scrapes with the football establishment..By all accounts, he appears to have been a fantastic footballer.An early 20th century George Best, without the drinking. Apparently Billy was tea total.


forget Giggs and Bale, Meredith was the original Welsh wizard who always played with a tooth pick in his mouth, which he maintained always allowed him to concentrate.
Every millionaire player in the world today owes him a debt of gratitude along with Charlie Roberts both of Manchester United who both set up the original Players Union.

Giggsy played on late in his career but Billy was playing at 50!

here are a few bits n bobs I have been fortunate to find from his career and like Georgie he had just one or 2 female admirers even back then!.

players Union magazine Volume 1 Number 1 and Meredith gets no mention[probably to the bribery scandal at that time] but Roberts does get a mention on the first page as he was on the committee https://flic.kr/s/aHskhtfkRj

Meredith's few bits: https://flic.kr/s/aHsjv36kjG

Wave
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To view 14,000+ original images relating to Newton Heath & Manchester United from 1878-2017 in over 500+ different categories just visit www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/sets

1000's more images to be uploaded-from the days of Newton Heath to the present. To view the latest uploads go to www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/

Click any images-now 9.9 million views to date


Last edited by manchesterunitedman1 on Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Flaming Pie



Joined: 26 Nov 2016
Posts: 197

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:32 pm 
Post subject: We sometimes lose our way at times perhaps
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Thanks for posting the Meredith memorabilia Leslie. As you said, present day players have probably never heard of them ( the Outcasts) but the likes of Charlie Roberts , Billy Meredith and the others fought to get them the big bucks some of them are on today. The bigger clubs certainly seemed to be raking in the money during that period, but little of it seemed to find it's way to the players. I don't think they were even on pay during the Summer months! Sandy Turnbull is another interesting story from that era. Sadly in 1917 he was a First World War victim. I did some research into the Liverpool v Manchester Unt 1915 match fix a few year back.Sandy Turnbull and some of the others involved received life bans from football,,, lifted after the war. You will know the story, but the general feeling from those that took part in it, was that we are probably being sent to our deaths, so why don't we try and make some extra money for our families. I wonder has anyone out there got a discarded Meredith tooth pick?
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Davee59



Joined: 08 Sep 2015
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:26 pm 
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A very interesting tale which I had never heard before. However, it does lead up to a sequence of events which as a Spurs fan I am far more familiar with. Tottenham finished bottom of the 1st Division in that 1914/15 season. When war was over and they extended the League in 1919 a vote was held to decide which 2 teams would be promoted to the 1st Division. To cut a long story short. arsenal who had finished 6th in the previous 2nd Division table were elected ahead of the 3rd,4th and 5th teams Barnsley, Wolves and Birmingham and of course Spurs. Strangely in 1975 the table was amended and arsenal and Birmingham places were swapped.

Hence the quiz question, which team in the top division of English Football never won promotion?
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Pete’s Picture Palace
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Joined: 19 Feb 2013
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Location: Wallington Surrey

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:53 pm 
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This is a truly great thread and I've enjoyed every contribution - thanks everyone.

All I can do to make some sort of effort is post this which every time I see it sends a shiver down my spine as the thought of one man, seeing his League champions-elect side humiliated by a non-league bunch from down South, sits there with his pen and ink and bit of old vellum and draws in such detail and sadness, yet with humour and no hint of rancour towards the victors. I can't describe how much I love this thing. It's now 110 years old and I'm sorry to those who have seen it once or twice before.





If I don't buy anything else towards my CPFC collection, at least I have this!
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bluejames



Joined: 30 Mar 2016
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:02 pm 
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A fascinating topic
i have seen a few articles over the years about Billy Meredith
One article i read,but i don't know exactly where, informed that Billy Meredith was kept around Old Trafford,by Matt Busby more or less until his death
Matt invited him into the dressing room to talk to and calm down debutants and explain to them what to expect and what was expected of them by the Manchester United fans
That would have been the Busby Babes,i presume
I have seen a signed menu from the 1957 or 1958 FA cup final that was signed by the Manchester United players that played in the final,plus a few others that were at the dinner,including Billy Meredith that confirm the above
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Dorking



Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 1451

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:47 pm 
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Cool thread. Just had a dip into my ebay 'purchase history' and have a couple of recent acquisitions which I thought I'd share. As Leslie said it really isn't about what these things cost (not much), it's just nice to build up a collection of eclectic stuff

First up is a Crystal Palace ashtray. I don't smoke (never have), but I think it's 1960s and pretty rare. Its in great condition, and I don't think when they made it back then they'd believe it would be a collectible 50+ years later, as it was simply a novelty everyday item. But I think it is quite of its time



It was presumably made by the same company who made an even rarer to survive bedroom door china plaque, which is on my son's room, so getting some real use!




My last item for today is a 'trade card'. I'd like to think I have pretty much all the cigarette and trade cards made for my team, Crystal Palace. Once in a blue moon I stumble across one I haven't seen before let alone got, which gets me a bit excited! This is one such card, from a set made by Birds Eye food in 1980



It is unusual in that nearly all of Kenny's 86 England caps were earned as an Arsenal player. Nearly all Kenny Sansom "England" cards and stickers also credit him as being an Arsenal player. So to find one which was whilst he was a Palace player is pretty cool for me.

Happy days.
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EYES OF BLUE



Joined: 03 Jan 2011
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:07 pm 
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Fantastic pictures , especially the bit about Kenny Morgans or Kenny Morgan
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Flaming Pie



Joined: 26 Nov 2016
Posts: 197

PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:53 pm 
Post subject: We sometimes lose our way at times perhaps
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Bluejames story about Matt Busby wanting to keep Billy Meredith involved at United is interesting. Didn't the great Nat Lofthouse do a variety of jobs at Bolton, even groundsman, after he finished as a player. I do recall a Lofthouse story about the team being driven by coach for an end of season tour. It was early in the morning , might have been to catch a ferry.One of the team remarked that he was feeing shattered after a long season.Lofthouse was sitting looking out of the coach window at miners making their way to work for an early morning shift at a nearby Lancashire pit. The great Bolton striker remarked "bloody he'll lads, aren't we lucky buggers.Look at these poor souls having to go down a pit just to earn a few quid, while we get paid just for playing football !"
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littlewiggy



Joined: 07 Apr 2013
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Location: Newport

PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:04 pm 
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EYES OF BLUE wrote:
Fantastic pictures , especially the bit about Kenny Morgans or Kenny Morgan



Cheers buddy.

I did get one of my facts wrong though, about Ken being our last player to score five in a league game. I remembered afterwards that Tony Buck scored all five in a 5-1 win at Bradford Park Avenue in 1968, so he was indeed the last.

Some lovely items on here guys.
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PompeyPhil



Joined: 24 May 2014
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Location: Portsmouth

PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:46 pm 
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Thought I would share the following items with the forum...... unbelievably they have all surfaced in the last couple of weeks and are something I have been after for ages!! Great additions to the Collection and believe it or not they didn't cost a fortune!



Original Portsmouth Evening News and Hampshire Telegraph Press Photograph of Portsmouth Captain Reg Flewin collecting the First Division Championship Trophy from Club President Field Marshal Montgomery on the 30th April 1949 after Pompey had beaten Huddersfield 2 v 0 . The other Pompey Players in the picture are L-R J Froggatt, L Phillips and H Ferrier.



Original Sport and General Press Photograph of the Portsmouth Team prior to the FA Charity Shield Match played at the Arsenal Stadium Highbury 19th October 1949. The Game was played against the FA Cup Winners Wolves and the match finished 1 v 1.




Pompey's Famous "Back to Back" 1st Division Championship Winning Manager Bob Jackson's Signature on an original Portsmouth Company Post Card.

Now your turn......what have you picked up lately!!
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manchesterunitedman1



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:25 am 
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bluejames wrote:
A fascinating topic
i have seen a few articles over the years about Billy Meredith
One article i read,but i don't know exactly where, informed that Billy Meredith was kept around Old Trafford,by Matt Busby more or less until his death
Matt invited him into the dressing room to talk to and calm down debutants and explain to them what to expect and what was expected of them by the Manchester United fans
That would have been the Busby Babes,i presume
I have seen a signed menu from the 1957 or 1958 FA cup final that was signed by the Manchester United players that played in the final,plus a few others that were at the dinner,including Billy Meredith that confirm the above


I have no idea if what you are saying is the gospel but Billy Meredith as a former United player [like all of those that were ex Reds] were invited to all the Cup Finals and Dinners and also the Championship wins in 1952-1956-1957 I have signed menu's of all those title wins and the only one I have that he did sign was in 1952-but bear in mind in 1952 Billy was then 78 and he was very frail[as he signature clearly shows] even then and he soldiered on until he passed away on the 19th April 1958[The 1958 Cup Final was NOT played until the 3rd May].

All this confirms is that Billy was an honoured guest for any United[and Manchester City] functions as he was a legend for both clubs spanning from 1894 when he signed for City until he retired in their colours in 1924. Billy coached United in 1931 and had a number of jobs once he stopped playing from being a Publican, a Licensee of a Cinema and a Sports Outfitter.

It is perhaps a likely outcome that the acumen of Matt Busby could well have used Billy Meredith to give his players some advise as well no doubt as being able to offer the same for Manchester City as well perhaps.

Here are some signatures of Billy's signature taken from the 1952 United Championship Dinner at the Midland Hotel and you can see how different it is compared to his earlier signatures when he was a younger man in his prime....

example 1 pre WW1 https://flic.kr/p/6kJ2sp
example 2 a little earlier than above https://flic.kr/p/7MZcvs
example 3 1910-20 https://flic.kr/p/9QDR2d
example 4 1952 https://flic.kr/p/b8U3kz
example 5 1952 https://flic.kr/p/a6vGZy


I have not seen any Meredith signatures myself on any United functions after 1952 and I have some profusely signed bits n pieces, so here are a few from the 1956-7 Championship Dinner https://flic.kr/s/aHsjfSiUNm

1956-7 F.A. Cup Run https://flic.kr/s/aHsjeGcPgY

I do have some others signed but none that have included the greatest ever Welshman to play football, the original Welsh Wizard who would have earned more honours and less bans had he not tried to fight to get all players a decent living wage without Billy Meredith and Charlie Roberts of United the present PFA would never have existed as these two founded the then Players Union https://flic.kr/s/aHsjv36kjG



Wave
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Twitter: @manyuman1

To view 14,000+ original images relating to Newton Heath & Manchester United from 1878-2017 in over 500+ different categories just visit www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/sets

1000's more images to be uploaded-from the days of Newton Heath to the present. To view the latest uploads go to www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/

Click any images-now 9.9 million views to date


Last edited by manchesterunitedman1 on Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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manchesterunitedman1



Joined: 17 Jan 2010
Posts: 2446
Location: Manchester

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:41 am 
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PompeyPhil wrote:
Thought I would share the following items with the forum...... unbelievably they have all surfaced in the last couple of weeks and are something I have been after for ages!! Great additions to the Collection and believe it or not they didn't cost a fortune!



Original Portsmouth Evening News and Hampshire Telegraph Press Photograph of Portsmouth Captain Reg Flewin collecting the First Division Championship Trophy from Club President Field Marshal Montgomery on the 30th April 1949 after Pompey had beaten Huddersfield 2 v 0 . The other Pompey Players in the picture are L-R J Froggatt, L Phillips and H Ferrier.



Original Sport and General Press Photograph of the Portsmouth Team prior to the FA Charity Shield Match played at the Arsenal Stadium Highbury 19th October 1949. The Game was played against the FA Cup Winners Wolves and the match finished 1 v 1.




Pompey's Famous "Back to Back" 1st Division Championship Winning Manager Bob Jackson's Signature on an original Portsmouth Company Post Card.

Now your turn......what have you picked up lately!!


Great items Phil and only goes to endorse my belief that goodness knows what is around the corner! so much stuff has been "rescued" by ebay despite "tons" have been lost due to 2 World Wars and stuff generally "slung out over the years"[best not to think about it I think maybe most of us collectors have heard the odd horror story with their Mother[never the Dad's] chucking stuff out without asking first! BUT you have to keep hoping that something special for your club will turn up one day just out of the Blue[but Red in my case!].

I bet your as pleased as punch!

A lot of what I upload that may appear as " new items" I may have had for ages, in some cases years, some that I do find I sometimes put on straight away so here are the latest bits added recently anyway:

www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/

Wave
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To view 14,000+ original images relating to Newton Heath & Manchester United from 1878-2017 in over 500+ different categories just visit www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/sets

1000's more images to be uploaded-from the days of Newton Heath to the present. To view the latest uploads go to www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterunitedman1/

Click any images-now 9.9 million views to date
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Mtbhull



Joined: 11 Dec 2014
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:21 pm 
Post subject: We sometimes lose our way at times perhaps
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I decided that one way of sharing my collection of Hull City was to tweet the cover programme of that particular calendar day.
It has gone quite well with over 350 followers including one or two ex-players and has brought back memories. even when the day's selection has not seemed very promising.
Does anyone else do anything similar?
If anyone wants to take a look it's TigerProgrammes on Twitter any suggestions on improvements or new ideas are welcome and if anyone has Hull City homes
29 March 1948 New Brighton
17 September 1955 Bristol Rovers
12 November 1955 West Ham United
and aways
01 December 1956 Mansfield Town
01 March 1958 Bury

please let me know!
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New Forest



Joined: 05 Jun 2017
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:49 pm 
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I for one appreciate seeing what other collectors have and looking at Leslie's site is an inspiration. I unfortunately lack the skill and not sure the rest of you are ready for loads of info on Leyton Football Club (Waltham Forest FC as now is).

As Leslie mentions Billy Meredith then you might be interested in seeing a page rom a Leyton FC Handbook of 1908-9, showing Billy's brother, Sam Meredith. He became the first player to be awarded a full International cap whilst with Leyton.



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Flaming Pie



Joined: 26 Nov 2016
Posts: 197

PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:34 pm 
Post subject: We sometimes lose our way at times perhaps
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The birthplace of the Meredith family, Chirk, has a massive car boot every Sunday.Haven't been for a few years, but l think it runs all year round. A useful place to take a trip to ( on a nice sunny day) if you feel that way inclined.Too many stalls for the dealers who get there early to check everything. A few years back someone picked up a couple of Welsh international caps there .They were just on a table surrounded by junk.They sold for a good few quid at Bonhams, Chester. Can't remember if they had any link to the Merediths
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