Pre - season friendlies

[littlewiggy]

Some great stories here, I do love it when threads go off into interesting tangents completely unrelated to the original subject matter.

They do say you shouldn't meet your heroes don't they, because you'll invariably be disappointed. Thankfully though there are always plenty of exceptions.

Aside from Tommy Tynan, who was my boyhood hero bar none (& still is), another of my long-standing heroes was Ian Rush.
Back in the early 90s when the Welsh team were training about a mile from my house, I simply had to go along to meet Rushie.

Trouble is, it was a midweek rest day from work and I'd been in the pub all lunchtime.
So there I was, having a pee behind a bush, when I glanced up and saw Rushie & Dean Saunders walking towards towards me.

In my inebriated excitement, I leapt out of the bush mid-pee, my old boy still in my hand, and promptly fell over whilst shouting something like "Rushie! I fecking love you lad!"

Him and Deano were roaring, and Rushie said I'd made his day. He was great fair do's, and even let me man-hug him.

It wasn't my finest hour though to be fair. lol


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[overlap]

Re who has been a gentleman over the years on the autograph front.

Nozer, one for you, when Derek Dougan was at Kettering, he would take time after games to sign all his old Wolves photos (as a kid I didn't know he had played for loads more teams).
Len Glover (ex Leicester) was also a gent in that Kettering team.

In contrast, Man Utd played a friendly in the Midlands when I was a nipper, and both Willie Morgan and Pat Crerand were absolute eejits, no time at all for the fans, made snarky remarks, and then just wanted to make a run for it to the nearest bar.
(Mick Martin was a gent however, short though his MUFC career was).

[FinnHarpsHistory]

One gentleman for me was Peter Shilton. When Southampton played my club Finn Harps in a pre-season friendly in 1984, they opted to change in their hotel and take a coach - a journey of five minutes tops...you could walk it in 15 mins to the ground . After the game the players came out of the dressing room to get back on the coach. Shilton stayed outside signing autographs for everybody.

Lawrie McMenamy got off the coach after about 15 minutes telling Shilton he was holding everybody up. Shilton replied he would walk back to the hotel and not to wait for him. He stayed for another 45 minutes or so until everybody had his autograph and then began to jog to the hotel only to get stopped by a few people on the street. He then walked to the hotel chatting to us.

He really impressed me that night.

[Ronsaunders]

FinnHarpsHistory wrote:

He really impressed me that night.

And this is the saddest thing of all in my opinion. It doesn't take a lot to give someone an experience that will live with them for a lifetime.

[Five and In]

Some great tales here.

I've been lucky to have met so many giants of the game.
Bobby Moore, George Best, The entire '66 team, most of the Spurs 70's & 80's sides and loads more. I was never disappointed by any of them and they all took time to sign and speak.
I cannot remember anybody refusing to sign or being rude to me.

There are a few amusing ones in there which are worth sharing.

Wiggy's toilet break story (classic mate) reminded me of when I was taking a leak and realised the urinal next to me was being used by Terry Venables. I started waffling when all he probably wanted was to zip his flies up and get out of there, but he chatted away.

The legend that is Bill Nicholson signed an autograph for me and commented on how nice my pen was. It was probably a Parker of some kind. Anyway, after he signed, he put the pen in his pocket and moved on. I was in my twenties at the time, but was in so much awe of the great man I didn't mention he had nicked my pen!

I was about ten years old and was taken into the Spurs changing room after a friendly match by my Godfather who played for Harlow Town.
The first sight for me upon entering was Ralph Coates standing on the bench in all his glory, which was at eye level for me! He signed my programme and chatted away seemingly oblivious to how close his "old man" was to my face.

Finally, Spurs had won the FA Cup Semi Final in 1987 and we had got back to the pub at the Lane to celebrate. After about an hour, the team coach pulled up, so out we went. The doors opened and Steve Hodge fell out obviously a little tipsy! After speaking for a minute he told me to "wait there a minute" and got back on the coach. A moment later, he returned with a six pack of lagers and said "Celebrate with my compliments" which I duly did.

[Flaming Pie]

As Ronsaunders said, you do remember these experiences for the rest of your life .l remember being at a book launch at Anfield. Most of the great 1960's team were present. All down to earth blokes, only too happy to sign fans memorabilia. Near the end of the event someone asked lan Callaghan( World Cup 1966 player and l think he over 800 games for Liverpool?) if he wanted a lift home? Ian said ."You're alright mate , l've got a saveaway" .Can't imagine today's stars using a saveaway! I remember a jounalist managing to get an interview with George Harrison in the 1990s. He took along his Beatles' vinyl collection in the hope of getting them signed. When the interview ended he said to George any chance of signing these for me? The Beatle said yeah, get them out. As he was signing them George laughed and remarked, "l see you haven't got the other three", so he signed each album with the names of all the other Beatles. I bet the jounalist was made up, what a collectors item!

[littlewiggy]

Flaming Pie wrote:

As Ronsaunders said, you do remember these experiences for the rest of your life .l remember being at a book launch at Anfield. Most of the great 1960's team were present. All down to earth blokes, only too happy to sign fans memorabilia. Near the end of the event someone asked lan Callaghan( World Cup 1966 player and l think he over 800 games for Liverpool?) if he wanted a lift home? Ian said ."You're alright mate , l've got a saveaway" .Can't imagine today's stars using a saveaway! I remember a jounalist managing to get an interview with George Harrison in the 1990s. He took along his Beatles' vinyl collection in the hope of getting them signed. When the interview ended he said to George any chance of signing these for me? The Beatle said yeah, get them out. As he was signing them George laughed and remarked, "l see you haven't got the other three", so he signed each album with the names of all the other Beatles. I bet the jounalist was made up, what a collectors item!

That's what the American dealers call 'clubhouse signatures' isn't it, where one member of a team or group sign for everybody.
I've often heard that George was by far the nicest Beatle.

Loved the Cally tale too, Shanks' favourite player was Cally.

Five's nicked pen and Ralph tackle also brought a huge smile to my face.


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[Pete’s Picture Palace]

Oddest thing for me is, less than 24 hours after posting my Bill Wyman story above (and I've NEVER mentioned it anywhere else), I got an email from a film company asking me to invest in a new film called "The Quiet One" - all about Bill Wyman!

[farmersboy]

In the old days, autograph hunters were mostly kids, collecting for fun. Now its middle aged men, collecting sets to sell on e-bay. This was particularly common around the world cup team, when they were still all alive. The were pleased to sign anything, but never got a cut of the sales of footballs, shirts, programmes etc which wee hawked about with their signatures.

[Flaming Pie]

That is true farmersboy.l think some of them( the1966 team) stopped signing altogether,which you can understand ,but it did cause some bad feeling from the fans.Pete' mention of 'the quiet one' for Bill Wyman is interesting.Wasn't that Beatle George's nickname as well!

[Ronsaunders]

farmersboy wrote:

In the old days, autograph hunters were mostly kids, collecting for fun. Now its middle aged men, collecting sets to sell on e-bay. This was particularly common around the world cup team, when they were still all alive. The were pleased to sign anything, but never got a cut of the sales of footballs, shirts, programmes etc which wee hawked about with their signatures.

That may be true for some players, but for the overwhelming majority, I know that they live in a bubble, but to think that virtually any current player has an autograph that is worth more than a quid is ridiculous. For example, with Villa. Buy the latest player photo = £1.50. Get it signed. Sell on t'internet for about a quid. Not much of a business model.

Plus people like Stanley Matthews addressed that by signing everything meaning that a chancer would make no money.

[farmersboy]

There is a cheap repro Celtic shirt signed by the 7 remaining Lisbon Lions at a special autograph signing session, that has recently sold on e-bay for £399. There is a variety of boots and shirts all selling for hundreds.

All it takes is a cheap shirt, a little bit of effort to get a recently promoted team or cup winners signatures and hey presto £300. 1 big star on a photo even easier. They go for more that a quid. This is big business now for someon.e

[Ronsaunders]

But how many "big stars" are there. Not that many. Things like the 1967 is, like 1966, a bit of an oddity. There is some money to be made but the vast majority of autograph hunters are there because they collect autographs...

[Tynie Topics]

Of course these days, kids are more likely to want a selfie than an autograph.

A photo of you with your hero, or a scrawl? makes you think.
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[Ronsaunders]

Tynie Topics wrote:

Of course these days, kids are more likely to want a selfie than an autograph. A photo of you with your hero, or a scrawl? makes you think.

Spot on. That's why I don't get autographs anymore Tynie - modern players scrawl across a card / photo and put a number.

[littlewiggy]

Modern players' "autographs" are an utter nonsense.
They're completely unintelligible and bear absolutely no resemblance to the name they purport to be.

Often looking like something an infant would doodle accompanied by a silly little number, like Ron says, and a smiley face.

I wouldn't waste my Bic's biro ink asking for one.

They're more impossible to decipher than the terrible 'reminder notes' I write to myself when I'm blind drunk.
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[Flaming Pie]

Have any autograph collectors on this forum got any theories on why and when players signatures degenerated into a scribble? What era did this happen? The likes of Pele, Best, Dixie Dean, Finney, Matthews and all the other greats must have signed million of times,but still managed to clearly sign their names.Is it in players contract now that they have to put their squad number when they sign? Is it purely for speed,so they can move on quickly? Surely that was the case when George Best was inundated with autograph hunters.George always managed to sign his name clearly.l am working on a university thesis on this subject! I've just got to learn how to spell!

[littlewiggy]

Flaming Pie wrote:

Have any autograph collectors on this forum got any theories on why and when players signatures degenerated into a scribble? What era did this happen? The likes of Pele, Best, Dixie Dean, Finney, Matthews and all the other greats must have signed million of times,but still managed to clearly sign their names.Is it in players contract now that they have to put their squad number when they sign? Is it purely for speed,so they can move on quickly? Surely that was the case when George Best was inundated with autograph hunters.George always managed to sign his name clearly.l am working on a university thesis on this subject! I've just got to learn how to spell!

I can't be sure FP as I've never collected them myself, but it all seems to coincide and tie in with the time that Sky came along and invented football for us mate.
I don't remember seeing those daft squiggles in the 1980s.

So I would hazard a guess that it was mid, or towards the end of the 90s that they became commonplace - and even non league players do them nowadays (or at least they did at County when we were NL anyway).
I had a County "signed football" a few years ago, and it looked utterly ridiculous, like a bored toddler had been let loose with a marker pen.

I couldn't give the bugger away!

As for why, who knows, maybe to save time, but more than likely because one or two top players made it fashionable and "the thing."

They've certainly made it a whole lot easier for the fakers & counterfeiters that's for sure.
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[Five and In]

Flaming Pie wrote:

Have any autograph collectors on this forum got any theories on why and when players signatures degenerated into a scribble? What era did this happen? The likes of Pele, Best, Dixie Dean, Finney, Matthews and all the other greats must have signed million of times,but still managed to clearly sign their names.Is it in players contract now that they have to put their squad number when they sign? Is it purely for speed,so they can move on quickly? Surely that was the case when George Best was inundated with autograph hunters.George always managed to sign his name clearly.l am working on a university thesis on this subject! I've just got to learn how to spell!

I would hazard a guess at the last twenty years FP.
All of my eighties and early nineties Spurs items are easily recognisable, but from the end of the decade onwards they are iffy to say the least.

I have a theory as to why the modern day player scrawls like a toddler as opposed to the clarity of yesteryear.
Education has changed with the development of technology and lots of kids do not write a great deal at school as it is done on computers, tablets etc., so naturally their handwriting would suffer as a result.
This is true in life in general not just football.
A huge percentage of players are also picked up at very young ages and just maybe, their education suffers more than in the past.

[Tynie Topics]

I have to say though, my signature probably resembles that of a football player, minus the number. Fortunately, I don't get asked for my autograph too often......

EDIT: Thinking as to why it's changed, as my signature used to be fairly long and legible, is that it is laziness combined with the fact I rarely have to write anything these days beyond an address on an envelope. Everything is done on a PC, I can't even remember the last time I actually wrote a letter.

That has to be true of kids growing up over the last 10-15 years and it has a knock on effect on standard of writing I suspect.
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