Football Programmes Centre

derby1884 · Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:35 pm Post subject: Venetian FC, 1907/08

I picked up this 4 x 1.5" membership/fixture card fairly recently.

I know nothing about the club, though - anyone have any information? I was wondering if they changed name at some point.

Very glad the original owner chose not to scribble the results in!

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Pete’s Picture Palace · Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:47 am Post subject:

Steve, not easy seeing the names of their opponents.

Is Chatham one of them? Norwood Hill? So presume Kent/Surrey based? Can you clarify please?

I've never heard of them but listing some opponents might help, I just can't read those names, sorry.

Cool

Ruud Van Driver · Joined: 16 Feb 2011 Posts: 1264

Likewise Steve/Pete, I can't read them either.

Could this be a case of 'Venetian Blind'?

Get My Coat

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Karb · Joined: 21 Jan 2015 Posts: 462

Ruud Van Driver wrote:

Likewise Steve/Pete, I can't read them either.

Could this be a case of 'Venetian Blind'?

Get My Coat

wandererpaul · Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Posts: 486 Location: Brentford

Pete’s Picture Palace wrote:

Steve, not easy seeing the names of their opponents.

Is Chatham one of them? Norwood Hill? So presume Kent/Surrey based? Can you clarify please?

I've never heard of them but listing some opponents might help, I just can't read those names, sorry.

Cool

Looks to me like Clapham Juveniles FC and Norwood Hill FC. Also, St Marys and St Stephens......

Didn't Crystal Palace play at Norwood Hill FC's ground at some point in their early history?
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bisphamseasider · Joined: 02 Jun 2009 Posts: 2732 Location: Blackpool

Lovely item derby.

Here's another superb old fixture book that recently sold on Ebay.

There were no bidders at £150 and I missed out seeing the relisting when it went fairly swiftly for £100.

I wonder if someone on here bought it.

derby1884 · Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 9:11 pm Post subject:

I'm hoping this will be a bit easier to read as regards their opponents.

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wandererpaul · Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Posts: 486 Location: Brentford

An intriguing bit of memorabilia.

I've looked through an online newspaper archive and nothing for Venetian FC comes up. Also, nothing for any of the other Clubs, bar Burstow United who come up in cricket fixtures and scorecards.

It seems that some of the Clubs are from Surrey, Kent and Sussex areas. Looking online and finding old League tables for some of these County leagues, nothing comes up either.

As I said, an interesting item and intriguing to find out who they were!
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Pete’s Picture Palace · Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:31 pm Post subject:

You'd think with this club playing fixtures against the likes of Clapham Juveniles, Norwood Hill, Bletchingley etc there might be some cross-over with the young Crystal Palace of the Southern League (and reserves), and also Croydon Common who had teams in the Southern League, the South Eastern League and the United League in that same era.

But I can find none at all even though my book "Who Killed the Cock Robins?" (a history of the Common 1897-1917) lists all fixtures, and in representative games, those clubs the selected players were affiliated to. Nothing at all to report.

All very intriguing. I'm wondering if maybe this is rugby football?

Note it was printed in Merton High Street which is sort of Wimbledon/Mitcham borders. Very local to here.

Wanderpaul, you asked if Palace had played at Norwood Hill? No - we played at the Crystal Palace 1905-15, Herne Hill 1915-18, The Nest (former home of the Common) 1918-24 and from then Selhurst Park.

wandererpaul · Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Posts: 486 Location: Brentford

Pete’s Picture Palace wrote:

Wanderpaul, you asked if Palace had played at Norwood Hill? No - we played at the Crystal Palace 1905-15, Herne Hill 1915-18, The Nest (former home of the Common) 1918-24 and from then Selhurst Park.

Cheers Pete.

West Norwood FC, not Norwood Hill FC, were at Herne Hill. That's close but not close enough! Wink

Could be rugby, I suppose. But it's odd that no Club comes up in a search on FMP newspaper archives, when you'd have thought at least one or two would've done. As I said, only "Burstow United" is recognised but as a cricket club!
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slightfold · Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 594

It would seem that it is a football item, as the fixture list mentions an opposition of a G.Richardson's X1. Here's a wild stab at location, perhaps they were from around 'Little Venice,' an area in London? When their centre forward scored a hat trick they said he played a 'blinder!' (sorry about the last comment).
Intriguing historical item this one.

derby1884 · Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:09 pm Post subject:

It's a clever little item - the pages inside the hard cover fold out two ways......so I've just spotted what's on the reverse side!

This may help identify them and/or their league?

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Pete’s Picture Palace · Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:36 am Post subject:

The secretary is from South Haslemere, stockbroker belt near Guildford - same sort of area as Bletchingley & Mickelham. But I can't find Roundhay Lane, of course it may not be there now. As for the Orient Tea Rooms...

So, he lives near Guildford, the list was printed in Merton, their opponents are in Surrey, South London - and they didn't play against Croydon Common or Palace 1st team or reserves in that period.

Done like a kipper on this!

Shake

derby1884 · Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:50 am Post subject:

I'm relying on you, Pete

I thought it was interesting that there were two games where the opponents were listed simply as "Amateurs" - as if that distinguished them, in some way, from the Venetian club.

Also, note that the asterisked league games only take place once a month.
That's unusual.
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Five and In · Joined: 15 Sep 2015 Posts: 1410 Location: Dawlish, Devon

https://www.flickr.com/photos/137252068@N06/shares/8ghPH3

I can't add anything to what others have said about your card, but I have a couple in exactly the same format. The oldest is 1938/39 and my research was made easier by the fact that it said Rugby on the front of both of them! Could it be that they were unique to rugby or has anybody any other sports in this style?

Pete’s Picture Palace · Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:04 pm Post subject:

Five & In's card, Great Bookham Rugby Club - 30 years later but a very similar format and also Great Bookham, Haslemere, Mickleham... all the same neck of the woods. Does it say who printed the Bookham card?

Steve, could you please email me all your images so I can send them on to a couple of local football historians?

Five and In · Joined: 15 Sep 2015 Posts: 1410 Location: Dawlish, Devon

Pete’s Picture Palace wrote:

Five & In's card, Great Bookham Rugby Club - 30 years later but a very similar format and also Great Bookham, Haslemere, Mickleham... all the same neck of the woods. Does it say who printed the Bookham card?

Steve, could you please email me all your images so I can send them on to a couple of local football historians?

The Bookham card was printed by F. Barford, The Athletic Printer, The Victory Press, Gt. Bookham.
The other card I have was printed by the same firm and is for Wlkerburn Rugby Club some twenty years later in 1959/60 season.

Five and In · Joined: 15 Sep 2015 Posts: 1410 Location: Dawlish, Devon

Five and In wrote:

Pete’s Picture Palace wrote:

Five & In's card, Great Bookham Rugby Club - 30 years later but a very similar format and also Great Bookham, Haslemere, Mickleham... all the same neck of the woods. Does it say who printed the Bookham card?

Steve, could you please email me all your images so I can send them on to a couple of local football historians?

The Bookham card was printed by F. Barford, The Athletic Printer, The Victory Press, Gt. Bookham.
The other card I have was printed by the same firm and is for Walkerburn Rugby Club some twenty years later in 1959/60 season.

Pete’s Picture Palace · Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:19 pm Post subject:

Five and In wrote:

Pete’s Picture Palace wrote:

Five & In's card, Great Bookham Rugby Club - 30 years later but a very similar format and also Great Bookham, Haslemere, Mickleham... all the same neck of the woods. Does it say who printed the Bookham card?

Steve, could you please email me all your images so I can send them on to a couple of local football historians?

The Bookham card was printed by F. Barford, The Athletic Printer, The Victory Press, Gt. Bookham.
The other card I have was printed by the same firm and is for Walkerburn Rugby Club some twenty years later in 1959/60 season.

Interesting that the 1907/8 printer also describes himself as "The" Athletic Printer!

Pete’s Picture Palace · Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:26 pm Post subject:

From social media about Bookham & Victory Press.....

http://www.francisfrith.com/uk/great-bookham/grocers-shop_memory-10201