Football Programmes Centre

bigearl79 · Joined: 03 Nov 2013 Posts: 440

Thinking about this earlier. For my club; Scunthorpe United, it's the FA cup tie at Horden Colliey in the mid fifties. I know that Horden certainly issued around that time for other cup ties but no one has ever seen a copy of for this match. Several Scunthorpe collectors have done some research into this and have found nothing. How common is this kind of thing in this hobby?

Wullie · Joined: 10 Jun 2009 Posts: 3427

There probably was a programme for the game, it's just likely it's so incredibly scarce. North East non league programmes are highly sought after. I can't find programmes I need from the 1970s never mind 1950s.
I'm sure a copy will turn up one day, but be prepared to pay a hefty sum for it.

cook · Joined: 30 May 2011 Posts: 184

One person who might know is John Stubbs, who used to be Horden's secretary. He's now at Bishop Auckland but helped me with some Alnwick programmes a couple of years ago when he was at Horden.

As Wullie said, north east non league appears to be scarce. Alnwick Town in the Alliance days 80's prior are hard to come by.
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Currently under construction - Alnwick Town, Percy Rovers and Aydon Forest programmes @ Flickr http://www.flickr.com/alnwicktownafcprogrammes/sets

derby1884 · Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:46 pm Post subject:

I can only speak as a Derby collector but, in their case, having spent most of their post-war life in the top two divisions it's less of a problem for domestic league and cup games.
Where it becomes relevant is for friendly games played in Europe (or, occasionally, beyond) between 1945 and 1980 which is when fans started to travel abroad to follow them as and when. and would bring back programmes.
Up till then, for a lot of games, who knows?

Re the north-east, when I was building up my collection, Crook Town v Derby 55/6 FAC was on all our wants lists as copies hardly ever turned up.

It's only the last ten years or so that more have come on the market. Probably Derby collectors selling up, though, rather than a stash being found in a Crook attic!
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Ugarte5 · Joined: 14 Oct 2011 Posts: 109

Wrexham played Horden Colliery in the 1953/54 FA Cup 1st Round. As far as I am aware no Wrexham collectors have ever come across a programme from that game either.
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slightfold · Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 593

Now that the issue of non-issues had been raised perhaps some enterprising individual will take note and print up a few of these to fill the gaps in various collections!

Ann Orack · Joined: 18 Aug 2010 Posts: 156

Those involving Sheff Weds where not known or no issues

1944/45 24 Mar 45 A Blackburn Rovers League North NP
1944/45 09 May 45 A Sheffield United League North u/k
1945/46 06 Apr 46 A Preston North End League North NP
1945/46 15 Apr 46 H Sheffield United County Cup NP
1949/50 16 May 50 A Norrkopping Friendly u/k
1949/50 18 May 50 A Copenhagen Friendly u/k
1949/50 20 May 50 A Copenhagen Friendly u/k
1949/50 23 May 50 A Copenhagen Friendly u/k
1951/52 13 May 52 A Bellinzona Friendly u/k
1951/52 14 May 52 A Basle Friendly u/k
1951/52 18 May 52 A Inter Milan. Friendly u/k
1951/52 22 May 52 A Germany Select Friendly u/k
1953/54 13 May 54 A Bangu Friendly NP
1953/54 19 May 54 A Sedan Friendly NP
1955/56 04 Oct 55 H Sheffield United Friendly NP
1955/56 09 May 56 A Wuppertal Friendly NP
1956/57 14 Jan 57 N Preston North End Fac NP
1957/58 01 May 58 A Hyde United Friendly u/k
1960/61 10 May 61 A Western Rovers Friendly NP
1960/61 17 May 61 A Eastern Region Friendly NP
1960/61 21 May 61 A Northern Nigeria Friendly NP
1961/62 12 Sep 61 A Olympique Lyons UEFA NP
1961/62 13 Dec 61 A Roma UEFA NP
1963/64 25 Sep 63 A DOS Utrecht UEFA NP
1963/64 29 Apr 64 A Buxton Test NP
1964/65 08 Aug 64 A Kaiserlautern Friendly NP
1964/65 30 Sep 64 A Aarhus Friendly NP
1964/65 01 May 65 A Polish X1 Friendly NP
1964/65 05 May 65 A Warsaw Select X1 Friendly NP
1964/65 08 May 65 A Valencia Friendly NP
1964/65 10 May 65 A Shamrock Rovers Friendly NP
1965/66 05 Aug 65 A Levski Sofia Friendly NP
1965/66 07 Aug 65 A Stara Zagore Friendly NP
1965/66 08 Aug 65 A Cherno More Friendly NP
1966/67 23 Jul 66 A Spartak Varna Friendly NP
1966/67 25 Jul 66 A Cherno More Friendly NP
1966/67 27 Jul 66 A Drobuga Friendly NP
1966/67 04 Jun 67 A Toulka Friendly NP
1966/67 11 Jun 67 A Mexican X1 Friendly NP
1966/67 18 Jun 67 A Espanol Friendly NP
1966/67 20 Jun 67 A Bologna Friendly NP
1966/67 22 Jun 67 A America Friendly NP
1967/68 10 Feb 68 A Wolverhampton Wanderers League PP NP
1967/68 16 May 68 A GAK Club Graz Friendly NP
1967/68 18 May 68 A Salzburg Friendly NP
1968/69 29 Jul 68 A Ards Friendly NP
1968/69 01 Aug 68 A Glentoran Friendly NP
1968/69 16 Oct 68 A Flanders X1 Friendly NP
1969/70 16 May 70 A Napoli Anglo Italian NP
1969/70 20 May 70 A Savoia Friendly NP
1969/70 23 May 70 A Juventus Anglo Italian NP
1971/72 31 Jul 71 A Ards Friendly NP
1971/72 02 Aug 71 A Glentoran Friendly NP
1971/72 05 Aug 71 A Drumcondra Friendly NP
1972/73 02 Aug 72 A St Johnstone Friendly NP
1973/74 30 Jul 73 A Norrkoping Friendly NP
1974/75 29 Jul 74 A Clyde Friendly NP
1974/75 31 Jul 74 A Kilmarnock Friendly NP
1974/75 03 Aug 74 A Dundee United Friendly NP
1974/75 10 Aug 74 A Port Vale Friendly NP
1975/76 29 Jul 75 A Kilmarnock Friendly NP
1975/76 08 May 76 A Boston Friendly NP
1981/82 10 May 82 A Mansfield Town Test NP
1983/84 08 Aug 83 A Mexborough Town Friendly NP
1986/87 01 Aug 86 A Kuuysi Friendly NP
1986/87 08 Sep 86 A Kuwait National Team Friendly NP
1987/88 18 Jul 87 A Armenia Biecefe Friendly NP
1987/88 19 Jul 87 A Witten Friendly NP
1987/88 26 Jul 87 A Shalke 04 Friendly NP
1987/88 15 Feb 88 A Kuwait National Team Friendly NP
1988/89 19 Apr 89 A Kettering Town Test NP
1990/91 09 Aug 90 A Genoa Friendly NP
1990/91 14 Aug 90 A Cremonese Friendly NP
1991/92 07 Aug 91 A Glentoran Friendly NP
1992/93 05 Aug 92 A AEK Athens Friendly NP
1992/93 13 Oct 92 A Mamelodi Sundowns Friendly NP
1993/94 22 Mar 94 A Real Madrid Friendly NP
1995/96 15 Jul 95 A Karlsruhe Intertoto NP
1998/99 23 Jul 98 A Manchester City Friendly NP
2009/10 13 Jul 09 A Floriana/Dingli Swallows Friendly NP
2009/10 16 Jul 09 A Birkirkara/Sliema Friendly NP
2009/10 09 Jan 10 H Peterborough United League PP NP

sharrowblade · Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Non issues

Ann Orack wrote:

Those involving Sheff Weds where not known or no issues

1944/45 09 May 45 A Sheffield United League North u/k

Definately no programme for this game.

Believed to be the only 1st team game in the last century that United didn't produce anything.

Regards Sharrow
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A Sheffield United Programme guide

Auchinleckian · Forum Moderator Joined: 21 Nov 2008 Posts: 4352

Some FAC proper programmes involving northern non league clubs rom my collection pre 1960.

Stockport vs Billingham Synthonia 49-50

Nelson vs Oldham 51-2

Stockton vs Mansfield 51-2

Blyth vs Accrington Stanley 53-4

Wigan Athletic vs Newcastle and replay and vs Scarborough 53-4

Bishop Auckland vs York 54-5

Blyth Spartans vs Torquay 54-5

Boston Utd vs Blyth 54-5

Selby Town vs Hastings Utd 54-5

Spennymoor vs Barrow 54-5

Bishop Auckland vs Scunthorpe 55-6

Blyth vs Hartlepools 56-7

Rhyl vs Bishop Auckland 56-7

South Shields vs Frickley CW and York both 57-8

Frickley CW vs Bradford PA 59-60

nozer · Joined: 24 Mar 2011 Posts: 1109 Location: Liverpool

[quote="bigearl79"]Thinking about this earlier. For my club; Scunthorpe United, it's the FA cup tie at Horden Colliey in the mid fifties. I know that Horden certainly issued around that time for other cup ties but no one has ever seen a copy of for this match. Several Scunthorpe collectors have done some research into this and have found nothing. How common is this kind of thing in this hobby?[/quote

Have you tryed Tony Kempster's Non-League Forum
, would be a good idea to put a post up on there i recon .

I obtained a Darlaston v Kettering F.A.Cup prog of this great site after searching for years without any luck ,has been the hardest Ketering H or A in obtaining for me and has there was only 200 issued on the night i was well pleased with that bit of detective work.

Sir Moses Hill · Joined: 13 Oct 2014 Posts: 134 Location: New York

Quote:

Those involving Sheff Weds where not known or no issues

Ann, definitely a programme produced for the 91 friendly v Glentoran. I'm almost certain programmes were also produced for the 68 and 71 friendlies between the same clubs, although don't have these myself.

pafcprogs · Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 994 Location: Westerham Kent

This is probably worth its own thread

The following Plymouth are definitely non issues:

58/9 Rochdale (A)
66/7 Queen of the South (fr) (A)
74/5 Altrincham (fr) (A)

There are question marks over the following 45/6 Argyle aways

Newport County
Leicester City
Coventry City

Peter
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Currently disposing of my collection so please email any wants lists to [email protected].
Most Plymouth post 1959 but plenty of others including reserves, friendlies, Cup Finals Internationals and Club issues, handbooks and other sports.

garyspain · Joined: 24 Mar 2010 Posts: 882

Sir Moses Hill wrote:

Quote:

Those involving Sheff Weds where not known or no issues

Ann, definitely a programme produced for the 91 friendly v Glentoran. I'm almost certain programmes were also produced for the 68 and 71 friendlies between the same clubs, although don't have these myself.

I'm pretty certain nothing was done for Glentoran v Sheffield Wednesday 68 & 71.

I've certainly neevr seen or heard of them and they were not listed in the known friendlies by the NI collectors club a few years back.

garyspain · Joined: 24 Mar 2010 Posts: 882

There can be a variety of reasons why no programme has turned up for a game. Of course the mian one is that nothing was produced.

In some cases the weather may have been too bad to sell them. I know of a couple of cases where a collector here rescued one from the dressing-room.

I know of 2 cases where a printer refused to release programmes without payment and the game went programmeless. One involving my own club Limerick v Longford probably saw all copies being destroyed. I tried and tried without success to get one. A Finn Harps v Kilmarnock friendly in the 90's (they met twice can't recall the exact year) was programmeless because the printer was owed money and didn't release the programmes. The club changed printers and didn't issue for that game. A collector did a deal and got 6 from the printer and did very nicely from them.

Sometimes programmes weren't collected or arrived late at the game. The rarest european home in these islands is Finn Harps v Bursaspor 1974. The most reliable explanation is that the programmes arrived at half time and only a few were sold. Presumably those unsold were destroyed.

For many friendlies not known it is likely nothing was done. However for league and cup games where programmes were issued for other games at the time it is likely there is another explanation.

In some cases we may never know for sure as there may not be any extant copies.

Sir Moses Hill · Joined: 13 Oct 2014 Posts: 134 Location: New York

Quote:

I'm pretty certain nothing was done for Glentoran v Sheffield Wednesday 68 & 71.

I've certainly neevr seen or heard of them and they were not listed in the known friendlies by the NI collectors club a few years back.

Gary, the guide is a good resource, but the friendly section is patchy. I have multiple Glens programmes that aren't listed in the guide.

Ann Orack · Joined: 18 Aug 2010 Posts: 156

Quote:

Ann, definitely a programme produced for the 91 friendly v Glentoran.

Now that is a mystery. Is there any way you could upload a scan or describe the cover? Many thanks

Posh1959 · Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Posts: 1218

FA Cup 1st round proper 57/58 i do not know anyone who has ever seen Durham City v Spalding, unusual if it was a non issue as Durham were regular issuers that season, including an issue for the 2nd round v Tranmere.

I also do not know anybody who has seen Bradford Park Avenue v Sheffield Wednesday 12/3/47, perhaps someone may enlighten me.

Peterborough v Northampton FA Cup 46/7 2nd replay at Coventry is another possible non issue for a game where you would expect something to have been issued.

Good idea this thread keep it going.

Ann Orack · Joined: 18 Aug 2010 Posts: 156

Posh1959 · Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Posts: 1218

Wow never seen one before and i do not know an Avenue collector who has a copy, do many Wednesday collectors have one, or is it a remortgage job to afford a copy?

garyspain · Joined: 24 Mar 2010 Posts: 882

I'd really appreciate a list of any Glens friendlies not in the guide that definitely have programmes produced.

I'm surprised by 68 & 71 as I would have them down as certain "non issues". I cannot recall the game in the 90's and unfortunately have no way of checking it easily. I don't recall a rare Glens v Sheff Wed anyway as the rarer 4 page issues were a couple of years later.

I would not be shocked if a new issue appeared from say Ards or Bangor going back but the Belfast clubs were well collected at the time and I thought they surely would have surfaced.

My known Glentoran Wants are

Peru/Chile XI 33
St. James's Gate 40
Bedford 55/6

Sligo Rovers away 77.

also euro aways at Panathinaikos 64, Eintracht 71 & Chimia 73.

and quite a few Dublin & Belfast Inter City Cup programmes.