Woolwich Arsenal v Manchester United 1907-1908

[manchesterunitedman1]

This was sold at Sportingold's last sale and went for £2,100 plus the bits and pieces making it around £2500 or so, my question then is this a record for a Woolwich Arsenal home programme from that season or so?
but if not does anyone know of any others that have been sold lately and their prices from this season 1907-8, have programmes from this season or prior turned up over the years now and again or at all?. When did WA start to produce a match programme on a regular basis?.
This was United's first ever Championship season so it may have added a bit more history/value to the item i suspect as well as being early Woolwich Arsenal at Plumstead, interested to hear any comments to shed a little more light on the matter.

[treble99]

There was a bound volume of 1907/08 Woolwich Arsenal that was sold by Roy Calmels of Sports Programmes in about 2002 if memory serves me correctly
They were broken out of the bound volume
As it is a sealed offers list i don't know what they sold for individually but i am led to believe that the Woolwich v Manchester United and v Chelsea sold for just over £2000 each
The Woolwich v other clubs were,i believe,sold for just under £1000 each
Of course Roy is the only one that will know all the above for sure
I have no idea f the programme that sold at Sporting Gold recently is the same programme
After all where there's one etc etc
I would suspect that this is indeed the same programme regurgitated but couldn't be sure

I believe Woolwich was in full flow in the programme producing by this date but the obvious guru to confirm this would be Leonard Evans

I am aware that 4 Royal Arsenal programmes sold a few years earlier than the bound volume
They were sold by David Convery
Working from memory only i believe that a deal was done between Richard Cohen and Gordon Johnson for these programmes
I have a recollection that they hammered at between £4000/£5000 each

I hope the above helps

I have in my own collection the reverse fixture between Manchester United v Woolwich Arsenal played at Bank Street,Clayton on 23/11/1907 in front of a reported crowd of only 8000

This programme along with Sheffield United v Manchester United from this season can be viewed at

www.flickr.com/photos/63580000@N04/sets

look at set 1907/08

The largest private Manchester United collection

[manchesterunitedman1]

treble99 wrote:

There was a bound volume of 1907/08 Woolwich Arsenal that was sold by Roy Calmels of Sports Programmes in about 2002 if memory serves me correctly They were broken out of the bound volume As it is a sealed offers list i don't know what they sold for individually but i am led to believe that the Woolwich v Manchester United and v Chelsea sold for just over £2000 each The Woolwich v other clubs were,i believe,sold for just under £1000 each Of course Roy is the only one that will know all the above for sure I have no idea f the programme that sold at Sporting Gold recently is the same programme After all where there's one etc etc I would suspect that this is indeed the same programme regurgitated but couldn't be sure I believe Woolwich was in full flow in the programme producing by this date but the obvious guru to confirm this would be Leonard Evans I am aware that 4 Royal Arsenal programmes sold a few years earlier than the bound volume They were sold by David Convery Working from memory only i believe that a deal was done between Richard Cohen and Gordon Johnson for these programmes I have a recollection that they hammered at between £4000/£5000 each I hope the above helps I have in my own collection the reverse fixture between Manchester United v Woolwich Arsenal played at Bank Street,Clayton on 23/11/1907 in front of a reported crowd of only 8000 This programme along with Sheffield United v Manchester United from this season can be viewed at www.flickr.com/photos/63580000@N04/sets look at set 1907/08 The largest private Manchester United collection is not mine tho.

Many Thanks for that information Ray-much appreciated all good background to know.

Manchester United 1907-1908
https://flic.kr/s/aHsjqn6Msj

This is a link to over 200 original images all relating to Pre-WW1 re MUFC
https://flic.kr/s/aHsjAupefG

More images from 1907-8 season will be added shortly and i will send a link to them once they have been uploaded.

[treble99]

Glad to have been of help

You can view programmes from your club against Manchester United
I have at least one programme against every team that Manchester United played pre war

Always on the look out for any more

Send me a pm if you want to discuss anything privately

Keep up to date at www.flickr.com/photos/63580000@N04/sets

Quality items regularly added

[Goonerak]

Programmes for Arsenal programmes were produced regularly as early as 1890 but not by the club. Albert Craig, the Surrey Poet, produced them for years and a local boys club produced them in the early years.

The club's collection of club-produced programmes goes back as far as 1904-05, it's first season in the top flight. This is as far back as Leonard Evans' Arsenal programme guide goes.

http://users.arsenalfc.net/leonardevans/book%203.htm

I've not heard of any Arsenal home programmes between 1898 and 1904 but they must have been produced as they are shown in the end of year accounts.

[manchesterunitedman1]

Goonerak wrote:

Programmes for Arsenal programmes were produced regularly as early as 1890 but not by the club. Albert Craig, the Surrey Poet, produced them for years and a local boys club produced them in the early years. The club's collection of club-produced programmes goes back as far as 1904-05, it's first season in the top flight. This is as far back as Leonard Evans' Arsenal programme guide goes. http://users.arsenalfc.net/leonardevans/book%203.htm I've not heard of any Arsenal home programmes between 1898 and 1904 but they must have been produced as they are shown in the end of year accounts.

Many Thanks Mr.Goonerak excellent info.

Now as promised here are some more United images from 1907-08
https://flic.kr/p/p3xW5y
https://flic.kr/p/p3y5He
https://flic.kr/p/pk1oyb
https://flic.kr/p/p3x1bH
https://flic.kr/p/p3xVKf
https://flic.kr/p/p3y5qv
https://flic.kr/p/p3xVyd
https://flic.kr/p/pjL3xr

Chelsea collectors will be interested also, more 1907-08 items to follow shortly....

[manchesterunitedman1]

Been a little busy lately but had not forgotten, here are some others bits n bobs from 1907-1908:

Lots more programmes to upload so will sort more out in November or so

https://flic.kr/p/7SjKU3
https://flic.kr/p/7SjL43
https://flic.kr/p/6cMwCx
https://flic.kr/p/7Zveju
https://flic.kr/p/6kZ43c
https://flic.kr/p/b3NUHc
https://flic.kr/p/b3NUX8
https://flic.kr/p/bDDHbc
https://flic.kr/p/bDDHfe
https://flic.kr/p/bDDHhk
https://flic.kr/p/bDDHme
https://flic.kr/p/bqJMZ3
https://flic.kr/p/dd6dJx
https://flic.kr/p/ekjh97
https://flic.kr/p/ekdvHn


Leslie Millman is Manchesterunitedman1

[manchesterunitedman1]

Back Again, i have a few more images to share but thought it best to leave this lot until they actually got together again 106 years later and today is that day:
https://flic.kr/p/pRWx2R
https://flic.kr/p/q75gi5
https://flic.kr/p/pRWwWR
https://flic.kr/p/pcnm4u
https://flic.kr/p/pRMz1E
https://flic.kr/p/q75g8L
https://flic.kr/p/pcnkX7
https://flic.kr/p/q9itVh
https://flic.kr/p/pRMyPh
https://flic.kr/p/pcAKMp
https://flic.kr/p/pRNqbf
https://flic.kr/p/pcAKDZ
https://flic.kr/p/q9itBw
https://flic.kr/p/q9itHd
https://flic.kr/p/pRVi8n


More 1907-1908 still to come, watch this space in the New Year

[1980Cossie]

http://www.invaluable.com/auct.....uiq44ivnkp

Hi Leslie, I've no idea what this 1907/08 Arsenal v Man Utd sold for in 2004 (maybe a registered paying member on the invaluable site could help us out) possibly it was the same programme sold by Budds recently because there cant be too many of them about... Sportingold sold a example of a 1907/08 Arsenal home programme vs Bristol City for £1150 back in 2004 but that was against Bristol City so obviously theres no comparison in valuation terms - by the way i recently picked up a 1878/79 Newton Heath bound volume in a ''job lot'' from ''dangerman'' let me know if your interested http://www.invaluable.com/auct.....xih35qi1y5

[manchesterunitedman1]

decided not to keep u in suspenders, some other items:

https://flic.kr/p/6frHqM
https://flic.kr/p/bwZCvf
https://flic.kr/p/8mAoxb
https://flic.kr/p/61z8n2
https://flic.kr/p/8BK7g2
https://flic.kr/p/duVc2B
https://flic.kr/p/4Upe8t
https://flic.kr/p/duVfPX
https://flic.kr/p/dv1R65
https://flic.kr/p/dv1R47
https://flic.kr/p/duVfSn

more to follow....

[treble99]

There's another rae programme from these two clubs coming up at Sportingolds auction next week
They have a programme from Manchester United v Arsenal from 1926/27 together with two programmes that,as far as i am aware, have never been offered at public auction before
They are Toronto All Stars and Jonkopping v United from their first ever tour to America
Also the "run of the mill" Aberdeen v United from the 1950 friendly
Dangerman must be selling up!!
Or possibly i think another forum member mentioned in an earlier post that he had a 1920's United home for sale
Well if this is it i already have it
The programmes can be viewed at www.flickr.com/photos/63580000@N04/sets
The largest private Manchester United collection

[manchesterunitedman1]

This is a post about 1907-1908 Ray it is that simple, you have had an earlier say with some interesting information of which i thanked you for.

However, as you now seem to be doing your utmost to annoy anyone and everyone then i wish to say to you that i do not want this post to become infiltrated and condescend in to others that you have decided to bring any of your petty squabbles with, you have on occassions done your utmost to bring down the "value" of the debates into personal slanging matches.

If you want to set yourself up being the Manchester United expert on their programmes at Auctions with what prices past and present-that would make a good post as you have much knowledge and some fabulous items for sure, but too often if not most of the time you enter posts as against hardly ever setting any up and discussing the merits of the hobby and anyone reading some of your diatribe is going to run a mile for sure.

Self promotion is one thing but attempting to ram it down the throats of everyone else does not work either, you do not affect me but others are not so forgiving and if you feel winding up everyone continually is fun then wonder why other give u a wide berth.

That is all i have to say-I may not be everyone's number 1 mate on here but i do try and contribute to the forum trying to evoke interest in United items along with other club's.
[b]
This is not a personal attack from me to you but for the moment a request to move on to a more positive attitude and debate collectibles which is what the forum is all about surely.



Leslie Millman

[treble99]

Leslie
Sorry for the offence
I thought that it was specifically about Woolwich Arsenal and Manchester United from 1908 but you then sent in a set of scans of postcards that had nothing to do with Woolwich Arsenal
I thought you had opened up the thread for a bit of debate
Sorry

As you know i take very little interest in auctions these days as i find that too often i have left my trousers,and my bollocks behind

I am just aware that forum members like to discuss auctions and i was just pointing out the rarer items that i have some knowledge about for the forum to possibly discuss

Again i apologise as the intention is not to offend

[manchesterunitedman1]

The post was about initially 1907-8 Woolwich Arsenal v Manchester United, youyourself came in with a link to Sheffield United v Manchester United 1907-8 some weeks ago, I already have this so felt there was no point in showing the same item again and then as the originator of the post ages ago I decided to show other images and this was one of a number of other posts showing more stuff from 1907-8 and it was clearly stated that this was the case months ago, by all means add some of your other 1907-8 items if you wish as this is what it is all about, but meandering onto other topics really needs to be done in a separate way.

Anyway, apology accepted- no harm done-let's move on eh......

[Cantona93]

Now that Les and Ray's unseemly squabble is over (for now) I expect that their full attention will be focused on the newsletters covering two of the 1908 champions post season celebratory tour matches against SK Slavia which have recently appeared on E Bay...unless they already have them of course....

It seems that even in those days anti United feelings ran high among the opposition supporters; the players were pelted with rocks and fans carrying knives and guns were just about restrained by the mounted police!

[manchesterunitedman1]

Cantona93 wrote:

Now that Les and Ray's unseemly squabble is over (for now) I expect that their full attention will be focused on the newsletters covering two of the 1908 champions post season celebratory tour matches against SK Slavia which have recently appeared on E Bay...unless they already have them of course.... It seems that even in those days anti United feelings ran high among the opposition supporters; the players were pelted with rocks and fans carrying knives and guns were just about restrained by the mounted police!

"unseemly" strange choice of words. It quite clearly states i reminded Raymond not to bring my post into any kind disrepute as a number of his prior ones on other subjects when he came in to those posts decided to enter the fray but ended up taking the thread in a completely different directon and then it transcended to bad language and bitter feelings amongst Raymond and a number of other members-all of which is an accurate account. Raymond graciously accepted my comments to him and the matter was closed, so what was unseemingly about that then?.

As to Slavia Prague from 1908-you must also have some of these as well?, do you speak Czech and can you translate them?, there was only one game one brochure was pre the match a week earlier and the other post with the result and a report and pictures of United the week later-this information was on the listing i recall, seems like they are now removed from ebay listings so i suspect someone out there has offered a pot of gold to acquire these items. Actually the seller is also offering several other items for English Clubs in Europe around the same time between 1905-1908 some of which have already been sold one item was v Newcastle United and the buyer gives good feedback. United did go on Tour to that part of Eastern Europe and played against Ferencvaros in Hungary also before this game took place.

Oh well, goes to show what is out there, ebay may have damaged many things but they also have the ability to bring out items that perhaps would never get seen?.